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good afternoon good morning good evening

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world my name is Leah Prime

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and I'm your host this evening of the

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invisible night school thank you so much

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for joining us whether you're catching

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us live or on a recording we are so glad

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that you're here

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the invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of lay researchers and

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Scholars you can find us at the

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invisiblenightschool.com and you can

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also find a link to our Discord

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Community included in the show

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description below the video

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I'm super excited to see more and more

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of you joining us every week hey to

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beefy UAP so glad you are digging this

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show

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um therapeutic for your migraines um

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I've heard good things about the role of

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psilocybin and DMT D and alleviating

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migraine and cluster headache pain so I

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like to think where maybe a little bit

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of that uh psychedelic tidbit you can

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enjoy spooky asks who is Leah Prime

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we'll be getting into that this evening

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what's up Swiss

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Universal principle we could be

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witnessing history yes I hope so in a

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good way

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um Lord Luda what's up V

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Matt this is like a who's who of some of

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my favorite people in ufology

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sniff

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swink good to see you Campbell

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Simon Rocca excellent all right I've

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exhausted the welcome list

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um and so let me bring my lovely co-host

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on for the evening we have the brilliant

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Kimball the inimitable Louise and of

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course a resident dubious Layman Nick

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yeah I'm excited for this one

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me too right I didn't even start talking

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about what we're gonna discuss

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between our uh sort of illustrious guest

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list we had Erica Luke's last week and

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next week we have Jack Brewer joining us

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um I'm stepping in to talk about

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um my experiences at the inquiry into

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anomalous phenomenon and excuse me

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inquiry into anomalous experiences and

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the phenomenon

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conferences that I attended in New York

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City both in October and then a couple

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weeks ago in December and then we're

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also opening it up uh basically as an

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invisible night school ask me anything

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so we have some questions that have been

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sent to us today over Twitter even Bell

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uh Discord and then also taking live

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questions from the audience in the chat

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so we're going to take a swing at this

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more like interactive Style Show uh

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super excited to connect with everyone

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who's tuning in

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yeah I'm really curious about this

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conference because there were a few

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things that happened right like not just

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intellectual also social yes

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yes it's not inconsequential that I'm

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drinking a whole lot of tea right now

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so this this all started in October

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um I reached out to James iandoli of the

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engaging the phenomenon podcast and he

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and I had previously connected I

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actually had you'll appreciate this I

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actually had no idea that he had a

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ufology phenomenon podcast I only knew

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of him through his

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um his work on meditation and I was

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connecting with him over the works of

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Daniel Ingram

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and the conference they were hosting

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came onto my radar and I asked you know

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is there any chance there's a ticket

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available because I'm right near New

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York City right now I'd love to swing by

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and he connected me with Nathan from

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calling all beings one of the hosts on

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that podcast and Nathan was like Leah I

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love what you guys are doing an

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invisible night school it's really nice

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to have your voice sort of on the

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subject I have an extra ticket I'd love

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to give it to you so there I was on my

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train to New York City the same weekend

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is Comic-Con and

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um but I never felt more normal as a UFO

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person than sitting on a train full of

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comic book convention people

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um

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and went to this event in October and at

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the conclusion of the event they uh

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subsequently announced the upcoming

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conference in December and the October

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event uh very candidly I really only

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attended because I really really wanted

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to see Mitch Horowitz I love Mitch

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Horowitz I've taken classes with him

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through the uh

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theosophical Society that's why I'm a

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member of the theosophical society

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actually

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um and then also through the

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philosophical research Society out in La

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um I saw Mitch Horowitz

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um also got tuned in to Sean esper and

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hargens who's developing an extra

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studies curriculum at a university out

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in California and talked to him for a

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while

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and really enjoyed my time there like

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had a good time with the people um it

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was a really small and intimate event I

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think they had about 100 tickets that

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were sold

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and when they announced the list of the

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December speakers I was like holy [\h__\h] I

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gotta go to this it read like a who's

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who like it had Jeff [\h__\h] who again

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huge fan of his work that's really what

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brought me in December we also had um

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Leslie Kane and Chris Mellon doing a

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conversation at the end of the day

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Sharon roulette who spoke on synchronic

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Studios and coincidences Ralph

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Blumenthal

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um and I'm trying to think if I forgot

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anyone else

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um

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it was I would characterize the October

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event and the December event is

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substantially more academic and sort of

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legitimate in many respects than I was

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expecting

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um it felt very much to me like a very

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small basically academic conference

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it's like written up presentations all

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uh without any real rich media like

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people just standing at a Podium and

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talking

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um and you know the opportunity to

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connect and kind of mingle with other

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people in the community in spaces and

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conversations that I think are typically

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Out Of Reach

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um so that's sort of it in a nutshell

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and actually let me pull up I am

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so we'll come back to these but um this

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is the speaker list for the October

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event so Gary Nolan was sort of the

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headliner he was like Metallica I guess

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and um

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like oh yeah and and Darren EXO

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academian um and I want to be very

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candid like with the exception of Mitch

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Horowitz I was functionally unfamiliar

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with every other person on this speaking

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list

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yes you enjoyed Sean and Aaron

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yeah who's Gary Nolan I'd like never

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heard of him before

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what's his deal he's like into balls or

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something I don't know yeah savings yeah

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that's right yeah I wouldn't know he

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blocked me

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I was gonna say I am as yet unblocked I

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still seem to be kind of flying under

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the radar um very nice but I think it

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was because I called him childish

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that would maybe do it I mean

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I'm feisty on Twitter I can't help it

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but yeah what was what were some of your

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big takeaways from that like uh going to

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a little bit like what were they

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presenting on I you mentioned one was

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about uh synchronicities and

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coincidences what did you think of it

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yeah so

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I'm just pulling up to the uh the

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December event here so right we have

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um sort of the the opening act was Jeff

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kreipel who's a Dean at Rice University

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out of Houston also the beginner or the

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founder of archives for the impossible

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which is basically their special

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collections involving the papers and

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correspondences of

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Whitley strieber Jacques valet

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um

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Etc he spoke a a my guess is he probably

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gave some permutation of the same

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lecture he gave when the archives opened

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which is basically about the

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intersection between the Paranormal and

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the sacred and sort of the recognition

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that paranormal or Supernatural or

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anomalous experiences have existed

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continuously throughout human history

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and the need for us to

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take in a a more interdisciplinary and

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intellectually serious approach to

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exploring these ideas

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um

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I had

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going into this lecture so his most

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recent work it's a pure the

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superhumanities I haven't read that yet

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but um I came across his work about five

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or six years ago and I read authors of

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the impossible which is about the

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relationship between the Paranormal and

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the sacred

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and he's also written a substantial

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amount on basically like esoteric

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vedanta and Buddhism like Tantra and a

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sacred sex and stuff like that so like

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dude has like a serious background and

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he's at Rice which is I don't want to

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say a top tier University but certainly

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very close

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um he's no slouch

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um but his presentation I think really

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sort of teed up and framed the entire

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day like it sort of curated the space in

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a really Pleasant way and also I mean

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when I look at this um this speaking

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list I'm extremely impressed with the

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variety of speakers present both in

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terms of the ideas and disciplines that

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they represent and also they're a place

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in this community

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um and we have sort of the ogs like we

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have Whitley strieber on the speaking

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list and then we have like Leslie Kane

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and Chris Mellon so some of these more

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figures that have emerged more recently

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in the subject so the entire sort of

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tenor of the experience of this event

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was very multifaceted which I personally

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um

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so after after Jeff

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um I'm trying to remember I think Ralph

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Blumenthal spoke next and

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um he wrote the he was the co-author of

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one of the New York Times articles with

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Leslie Kane but he also wrote a pretty

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exhaustive biography of John Mack the

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Harvard psychiatrist who did a lot of

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research into experiencers

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and um what struck me with blumenthal's

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presentation is his he discussed at

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Great length John Mack's experience at a

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holotropic breathwork retreat with

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stanislav Graf and his time at esseln

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and how it fundamentally changed his

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perspective on the world and his

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openness to sort of mysterious or

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numinous experiences and I'm I'm sitting

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in the audience right like texting my

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parents thinking saying holy [\h__\h] you'll

281
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never believe this because like I Spent

282
00:11:51,290 --> 00:11:48,720
My Summer at a holotropic retreat like

283
00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:51,300
completely changed I mean psychedelia in

284
00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:52,740
general has completely changed how I see

285
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:54,180
the world

286
00:11:58,610 --> 00:11:56,760
um and so for a pretty strong resonance

287
00:11:59,569 --> 00:11:58,620
there I haven't read the believer um I

288
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,579
have it kind of just sitting in my

289
00:12:04,250 --> 00:12:01,680
Amazon cart with everything else

290
00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:04,260
um but Blumenthal was pretty you know

291
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:06,660
um I would say categorically sympathetic

292
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:09,600
to John Mack but also seem to have like

293
00:12:12,829 --> 00:12:11,519
a pretty robust and detailed

294
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:12,839
understanding of the man's background

295
00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:15,000
and objectives and things and then of

296
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:16,680
course with Whitley strieber

297
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:20,880
um and uh the 13 year old Leah Prime who

298
00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:22,560
was hiding under the covers listening to

299
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,380
Art Bell uh plowing through the book

300
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,120
communion and scaring herself shitless

301
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:29,760
like dude I love to see Whitley streamer

302
00:12:34,970 --> 00:12:30,720
speak

303
00:12:37,009 --> 00:12:34,980
um he has a very intense and interesting

304
00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:37,019
experience

305
00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:41,399
that he recounted

306
00:12:45,050 --> 00:12:43,139
and it became

307
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,060
um

308
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:47,760
it was he gave a very impassioned and

309
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:50,639
unexpectedly intense presentation and

310
00:12:55,129 --> 00:12:52,380
actually got quite emotional in some

311
00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:55,139
parts of it uh he seems to be

312
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,139
in many respects profoundly menaced by

313
00:13:01,730 --> 00:13:00,000
his experiences at this point in his

314
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,740
life which I was a little bit surprised

315
00:13:04,129 --> 00:13:03,420
by

316
00:13:05,629 --> 00:13:04,139
um

317
00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:05,639
could you go into that a little bit that

318
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:07,500
sounds interesting yeah yeah absolutely

319
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,320
so you know everybody sort of knows him

320
00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:12,240
for communion and I think sort of the

321
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,620
punch line with communion is that he

322
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,600
never actually calls what he experiences

323
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,519
like alien abductions or encounters he

324
00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:19,200
just calls them beings right it's this

325
00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:21,480
sort of just like numinous description

326
00:13:25,850 --> 00:13:23,639
and the content of his presentation is

327
00:13:27,290 --> 00:13:25,860
he was basically walking through

328
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:27,300
stepping us through sort of the history

329
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:29,220
of having this experience in Upstate New

330
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,660
York no less like literally like 30

331
00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:32,880
minutes from where I'm broadcasting

332
00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:36,360
um and how he deliberately sought to

333
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:37,980
basically destroy his marriage after

334
00:13:41,629 --> 00:13:39,240
this happened because it's so

335
00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:41,639
fundamentally altered his view of the

336
00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:43,380
world and his sense of reality that he

337
00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:45,240
basically thought he was crazy and that

338
00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:46,740
his wife would be better off leaving him

339
00:13:51,530 --> 00:13:49,740
and he talks sort of through the his own

340
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,540
sort of self-destruction and trying to

341
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,800
navigate

342
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,480
um his his emotions after whatever

343
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:56,399
happened to him happened

344
00:13:58,910 --> 00:13:57,540
um

345
00:14:00,170 --> 00:13:58,920
so that's sort of like the the

346
00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:00,180
foundation

347
00:14:04,370 --> 00:14:02,100
um but then he he started talking

348
00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:04,380
through basically the ongoing

349
00:14:11,329 --> 00:14:06,540
experiences that have punctuated his

350
00:14:13,850 --> 00:14:11,339
life in the time since and the

351
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:13,860
entire lecture was bookended was

352
00:14:19,129 --> 00:14:16,260
probably like a 10 minute

353
00:14:21,889 --> 00:14:19,139
pretty impassioned recollection of

354
00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:21,899
feeling extremely menaced in his home

355
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,540
I think he's in Santa Monica

356
00:14:28,430 --> 00:14:26,639
um and feeling like people are going

357
00:14:31,009 --> 00:14:28,440
like now he doesn't even say people he

358
00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:31,019
just feels like something is physically

359
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,639
disrupting his environment going through

360
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,800
his belongings he doesn't feel safe to

361
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:36,959
stay there he feels like intruded upon

362
00:14:40,610 --> 00:14:39,060
and menaced and spent substantial

363
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,620
amounts of time in the United Kingdom

364
00:14:44,689 --> 00:14:42,720
trying to sort of disintermediate

365
00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:44,699
whatever was going on with him

366
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:47,220
got pretty emotional choked up raised

367
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:48,959
his voice

368
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:52,560
um I was I'd say I was not prepared for

369
00:14:57,769 --> 00:14:55,980
that it was it was

370
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:57,779
I thought I'd put those

371
00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:00,180
it was a distressing speech to what

372
00:15:05,569 --> 00:15:01,920
you're not speech it was a distressing

373
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,579
talk to watch not by the nature of the

374
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,920
content but because you could tell that

375
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:09,680
this was someone who was deeply

376
00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:13,560
traumatized by what had happened to him

377
00:15:21,230 --> 00:15:16,820
and had a lot of

378
00:15:22,910 --> 00:15:21,240
emotional intensity associated with it

379
00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:22,920
um and he was extremely candid like he

380
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,019
was very candid about sort of being made

381
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,360
a laughing stock about what he reports

382
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,519
as a sexual assault or effectively a

383
00:15:34,189 --> 00:15:31,680
rape and you know becoming sort of this

384
00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:34,199
cultural punch line for 20 years and the

385
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,660
subsequent sort of challenges and Trauma

386
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:38,880
that caused for him in his own life

387
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,920
um so it was a deeply personal

388
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:42,600
and almost

389
00:15:46,129 --> 00:15:43,740
um

390
00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:46,139
almost like a personal narrative more

391
00:15:49,850 --> 00:15:48,120
than any sort of structured academic

392
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,860
kind of talk

393
00:15:54,650 --> 00:15:51,839
that sounds like he sort of describes

394
00:15:57,650 --> 00:15:54,660
his experiences in relation to sensing

395
00:16:00,170 --> 00:15:57,660
uh like a presence of some kind or a

396
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:00,180
series of presences does he this like

397
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,000
does he get into interpreting those

398
00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:04,800
experiences or is he more on the

399
00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:06,899
observational side

400
00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:09,240
that's a great question

401
00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:10,139
um

402
00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:12,600
so and I'll be very honest like my

403
00:16:17,389 --> 00:16:15,180
experience with wit has just been

404
00:16:19,009 --> 00:16:17,399
um is an art bell guest in the 90s and

405
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:19,019
reading communion but he's been pretty

406
00:16:24,110 --> 00:16:20,760
prolific he's written a huge number of

407
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,120
books um about these experiences

408
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,639
and he

409
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,160
um

410
00:16:34,430 --> 00:16:30,959
like I just don't know enough about what

411
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,440
he's written or how he's assessed it to

412
00:16:40,249 --> 00:16:36,959
draw any kind of conclusion on anything

413
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:40,259
he's thought and I also see there's some

414
00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:41,519
questions in the chat here that I want

415
00:16:46,249 --> 00:16:44,699
to bring this up yeah Menace is a great

416
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,259
choice to describe what he communicates

417
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:48,480
yeah there was definitely a distinct

418
00:16:53,449 --> 00:16:50,699
sense of him being extremely troubled

419
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:53,459
and menaced in this conversation

420
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,980
um when Once the organizers get the

421
00:16:59,569 --> 00:16:57,839
event put up on YouTube I'd strongly

422
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,579
recommend checking out all the talks

423
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:01,199
they'll put them up for free sometime

424
00:17:05,390 --> 00:17:03,240
over the next week or so but Whitley's

425
00:17:06,590 --> 00:17:05,400
is particularly interesting

426
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:06,600
um

427
00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:12,540
oh that was gonna be what I asked is if

428
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:14,459
these were available for the public to

429
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,720
see now that the event's taking place

430
00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:17,520
but that's good

431
00:17:21,409 --> 00:17:19,980
yeah uh he saw them under hypnotic

432
00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:21,419
regression yeah hypnotic regression is

433
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:23,339
like a little horseshit though yeah a

434
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,640
little like yeah like I I

435
00:17:30,530 --> 00:17:28,319
um if hypnotic regression is part of

436
00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:30,540
sort of a constellation of events or

437
00:17:34,610 --> 00:17:32,040
constellation of efforts trying to

438
00:17:36,529 --> 00:17:34,620
understand an event or um experience

439
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,539
that's one thing but like I personally

440
00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:38,160
categorically dismiss hypnotic

441
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:40,200
regression as anything useful

442
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:41,460
um except for maybe it's just like a

443
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,400
sideshow kind of interesting thing sure

444
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:46,320
um maybe it was an act yeah so this is

445
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:48,000
interesting and this is something

446
00:17:52,370 --> 00:17:50,520
um there has to be a term for this and

447
00:17:53,930 --> 00:17:52,380
it doesn't just exist in ufology it

448
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:53,940
exists sort of across the spectrum of

449
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:56,580
Human Experience where

450
00:18:00,169 --> 00:17:58,620
even if it is an act at a certain point

451
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,179
when somebody lives this kind of story

452
00:18:04,190 --> 00:18:02,160
constantly it becomes just as good as

453
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,200
true and they're sort of emotional and

454
00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:06,480
psychological and social landscape and

455
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:08,940
so even if it is an act at this point

456
00:18:14,690 --> 00:18:12,000
it has become almost an aggregor in the

457
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:14,700
sense that it's uh it's become like it's

458
00:18:18,169 --> 00:18:16,799
become a [\h__\h] tulpa

459
00:18:20,270 --> 00:18:18,179
um where it's been sort of dreamed into

460
00:18:22,850 --> 00:18:20,280
existence and now has its own kind of

461
00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:22,860
meaning and distinct purpose within this

462
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,080
identity so in in many respects when it

463
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:27,120
comes to Whitley

464
00:18:31,310 --> 00:18:28,640
um

465
00:18:33,650 --> 00:18:31,320
what happened or did not happen to him

466
00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:33,660
is effectively unimportant or

467
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:35,160
uninteresting to me what's very

468
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:36,480
interesting is sort of how he's

469
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:38,700
metabolized it and in turn how it's sort

470
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:41,820
of seeped into this community and helped

471
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:43,740
with some of these sense making that you

472
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:46,620
see people have around experiences well

473
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:48,720
that's such an interesting part about it

474
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:52,440
uh that he seems to almost serve as a

475
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,100
locust for like an intermediary between

476
00:19:01,850 --> 00:18:58,559
the isolated Community experiencing

477
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:01,860
these things and the larger uh Society

478
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:04,620
almost and um it's not surprising to me

479
00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:06,600
that he's experienced so much negativity

480
00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:08,760
resulting from that because I imagine he

481
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:10,860
would almost serve as a lightning rod to

482
00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:12,780
criticism of these kinds of experiences

483
00:19:16,190 --> 00:19:14,460
in general in that way

484
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:16,200
yeah and I think like that's that's

485
00:19:21,770 --> 00:19:19,260
exactly right and um

486
00:19:23,930 --> 00:19:21,780
I I have a I have a very close friend

487
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:23,940
who is very much an experiencer and him

488
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:25,740
and I talk about this all the time and

489
00:19:30,409 --> 00:19:27,440
and one of our conversations

490
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,419
he had basically said that he thought

491
00:19:36,049 --> 00:19:33,360
his experience most echoed Whitley's

492
00:19:37,690 --> 00:19:36,059
experience I hope my friend doesn't mind

493
00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:37,700
me saying this I'm not giving a name

494
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:40,380
identification or anything

495
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:41,640
um but then he went on to watch

496
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:44,400
Whitley's presentation and talk to me

497
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:49,039
and said I take that back like like like

498
00:19:54,770 --> 00:19:52,500
I I am not in any sense menaced or

499
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,780
harassed he's like I see what happens to

500
00:19:58,850 --> 00:19:56,640
me as deeply profoundly healing and

501
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:58,860
insightful and very important

502
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,940
um

503
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:01,919
and I think that's I think that's

504
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:03,660
interesting because I also think that

505
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:06,720
streber has been like like so much of

506
00:20:12,049 --> 00:20:09,299
the ufology topic in general has been

507
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:12,059
flattened into a caricature of himself

508
00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:15,299
in the popular imagination and that I

509
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:18,299
say that to say that I think that again

510
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,460
without conferring judgment on the

511
00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:23,039
accuracy or veracity of Whitley's

512
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:28,010
in entering the popular imagination

513
00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:30,179
through communion through Coast to Coast

514
00:20:37,789 --> 00:20:34,020
through the South Park episodes like

515
00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:39,710
um reduced

516
00:20:44,690 --> 00:20:42,600
to only a couple particular points of

517
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,700
his experience rather than what seems to

518
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:46,799
be something that may be far more

519
00:20:50,029 --> 00:20:49,440
complex and maybe interesting

520
00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:50,039
um

521
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:52,200
but again all of this is bookended with

522
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,400
a disclaimer that I haven't read

523
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:54,960
anything beyond communion and have only

524
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:57,059
seen him speak and you know heard him on

525
00:21:03,289 --> 00:21:00,720
Dreamland a few times and stuff right

526
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,299
well it's a good uh sort of summation of

527
00:21:07,610 --> 00:21:05,520
it because that's similar to me except I

528
00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:07,620
know even less about him except for

529
00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:10,860
these vague sort of cultural identifiers

530
00:21:16,370 --> 00:21:14,460
and I definitely feel what you're saying

531
00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:16,380
uh certainly before getting involved in

532
00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:18,600
this study of the subject in more depth

533
00:21:23,570 --> 00:21:21,660
and understanding more intimately what's

534
00:21:26,150 --> 00:21:23,580
actually happening how important these

535
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:26,160
experiences are to people seeing the

536
00:21:29,149 --> 00:21:28,260
effects it has on their lives I can

537
00:21:29,810 --> 00:21:29,159
really

538
00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:29,820
um

539
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:31,740
see how

540
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:34,740
somebody like Whitley

541
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,400
by having his material converted into

542
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,799
popular media will actually

543
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:42,360
unfortunately potentially in some ways

544
00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:44,880
produce that uh stigma it's almost like

545
00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:46,980
if I had a psychedelic trip and only

546
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:48,840
described like one instance of like

547
00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:52,020
seeing something do something wild and I

548
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:53,640
ignore all the rest that produce like a

549
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,740
life-changing subjective experience it

550
00:22:00,529 --> 00:21:57,120
would just sound like a goofy thing to

551
00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:00,539
do and um I I can't help but feel that

552
00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:01,980
there's something like that happening

553
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:03,299
here

554
00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:06,059
mm-hmm yeah um and we have a question

555
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,100
here V I've heard people speculate about

556
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:09,840
his mental health did he seem okay at

557
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:11,159
this time in his life as much as you

558
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:13,740
could tell yeah and that's that's

559
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,880
um sort of what I was getting at

560
00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:16,260
hopefully probably a bit more

561
00:22:21,649 --> 00:22:19,020
euphemistically than uh some of you

562
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:21,659
picked up is that he did seem to be

563
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:24,480
troubled like he he did not he he seemed

564
00:22:29,930 --> 00:22:27,960
intensely emotional and traumatized uh

565
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:29,940
particularly at different parts of his

566
00:22:34,669 --> 00:22:33,299
his uh his talk

567
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,679
um

568
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:36,720
some of it may have just been the

569
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:38,280
emotional intensity of what he was

570
00:22:41,149 --> 00:22:39,600
recounting

571
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:41,159
um talking about his his relationship

572
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,140
with his wife and sort of this sense of

573
00:22:46,730 --> 00:22:45,120
Menace that he felt

574
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:46,740
um and I mean you know look how much of

575
00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:48,780
it too is just under underpinned by

576
00:22:51,649 --> 00:22:50,940
pathology

577
00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:51,659
um

578
00:22:54,350 --> 00:22:52,860
I certainly don't feel comfortable

579
00:22:57,470 --> 00:22:54,360
making any sort of judgment about that

580
00:22:58,730 --> 00:22:57,480
but I would also say that

581
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,740
um

582
00:23:02,690 --> 00:23:00,480
I don't believe speculation about his

583
00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:02,700
mental health is unfounded which

584
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:04,620
this is a very political thing to say

585
00:23:11,470 --> 00:23:10,730
um did he talk about um Bud Hopkins at

586
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:11,480
all

587
00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,840
he didn't okay he he didn't in fact

588
00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:17,700
I'm Bud Hopkins

589
00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:20,580
which uh this is

590
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:23,340
I was like oh [\h__\h] Ralph uh I think it

591
00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:26,400
was Ralph who brought up bud Hopkins

592
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:31,850
in discussing Leslie Kane's involvement

593
00:23:34,029 --> 00:23:33,179
with him

594
00:23:36,289 --> 00:23:34,039
um

595
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:36,299
for anyone just tuning in one of my

596
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:38,760
favorite UFO facts is that Leslie Kane

597
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:41,520
and Bud Hopkins were a couple at that

598
00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:44,640
um she was his partner uh I think the

599
00:23:48,649 --> 00:23:47,280
last 10 years of his life

600
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:48,659
um and anyone who's interested in the

601
00:23:51,770 --> 00:23:50,159
bud Hopkins Saga should totally read

602
00:23:54,529 --> 00:23:51,780
Carol rainey's piece in the first

603
00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:54,539
episode of first issue of peritopia all

604
00:23:58,130 --> 00:23:56,220
about but Hopkins and David Jacobs

605
00:24:00,649 --> 00:23:58,140
highly recommended reading

606
00:24:01,909 --> 00:24:00,659
um basically about how [\h__\h] uh

607
00:24:03,890 --> 00:24:01,919
hypnotic regression was and how

608
00:24:06,169 --> 00:24:03,900
fraudulent a lot of Jacobs and Hopkins

609
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:06,179
Behavior was uh and predatory and

610
00:24:12,049 --> 00:24:07,679
exploitative and all that other stuff

611
00:24:18,049 --> 00:24:15,169
um and uh I I

612
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:18,059
I also say that uh

613
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,860
it was sort of want to be careful where

614
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:20,940
I tread here because I'm trying to

615
00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:23,039
thread a needle between I think

616
00:24:28,909 --> 00:24:25,980
experiencers experience something I do

617
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:28,919
think people have experiences

618
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:31,620
um I think they are mysterious and

619
00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:34,679
um numinous and

620
00:24:37,490 --> 00:24:36,179
very much worthy of attention and

621
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:37,500
consideration but I also think that

622
00:24:41,330 --> 00:24:39,780
these are people that regardless of the

623
00:24:42,649 --> 00:24:41,340
positivity of these experiences are

624
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:42,659
highly vulnerable and frequently

625
00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:44,400
traumatized by them and that there are

626
00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:46,620
effectively predators in this space who

627
00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:49,860
exploit that trauma and vulnerability in

628
00:24:54,830 --> 00:24:51,980
ways that are either self-serving or

629
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:54,840
self-aggrandizing or in service to their

630
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:57,600
own bank accounts so I tend to be

631
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,340
extremely skeptical of a lot of the

632
00:25:03,049 --> 00:25:01,200
people that I see working with and

633
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:03,059
talking about experiences up to and

634
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,679
particularly including Jacobs and

635
00:25:13,450 --> 00:25:11,090
and at this conference uh to what extent

636
00:25:15,310 --> 00:25:13,460
did they Define

637
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:15,320
UFOs

638
00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:18,720
as related to Consciousness because

639
00:25:21,890 --> 00:25:20,340
looking at Christopher mellon's name for

640
00:25:24,970 --> 00:25:21,900
example I get the sense that he's kind

641
00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:24,980
of like a nuts and bolts like craft guy

642
00:25:30,110 --> 00:25:27,320
so how much did they actually dig into

643
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:30,120
getting into like if it's all sort of

644
00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:31,440
the same thing

645
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:33,240
yeah man that's such a good question

646
00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:35,220
right and like

647
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:37,500
um and I'm gonna rewind a little bit to

648
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:39,960
that first event so in this first event

649
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:42,480
we had two speakers we had Sean um esper

650
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:45,480
and hargens and Darren EXO Academia and

651
00:25:48,830 --> 00:25:47,400
both of these guys like esperan hargens

652
00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:48,840
if you get the chance definitely check

653
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:50,100
out his

654
00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:51,600
um

655
00:25:55,269 --> 00:25:53,340
I think it's called living in a wild

656
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:55,279
Cosmos which is sort of his like

657
00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:57,720
exegesis on what EXO studies entails

658
00:26:00,649 --> 00:25:58,980
like sort of interdisciplinary

659
00:26:03,049 --> 00:26:00,659
exploration of Consciousness and

660
00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:03,059
mysticism and Altered States and how it

661
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:05,159
relates to ufology

662
00:26:09,950 --> 00:26:08,400
um and of course Darren

663
00:26:12,350 --> 00:26:09,960
um similarly ties these ideas together

664
00:26:15,169 --> 00:26:12,360
he's cited like Donald Hoffman Bernardo

665
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,179
Castro Rupert sheldrake and Roger

666
00:26:19,549 --> 00:26:17,039
Penrose it was like who's who of like

667
00:26:21,169 --> 00:26:19,559
Leah's personal Brain Trust and I bring

668
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:21,179
this up because certainly in the first

669
00:26:24,529 --> 00:26:23,159
event the subject of Consciousness was

670
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:24,539
very much more of the nucleus around

671
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:26,039
which the conference was centered

672
00:26:31,970 --> 00:26:30,059
whereas um with this second event

673
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:31,980
um you're right like like the headlining

674
00:26:36,289 --> 00:26:34,440
like Def Leppard here was Christopher

675
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:36,299
melon and Liza Kane and definitely have

676
00:26:39,649 --> 00:26:38,220
that bent towards the nuts and bolts

677
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:39,659
ideas the sort of military and

678
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,400
Department of Defense like these are

679
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:43,440
literal material physical objects that

680
00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:46,140
people observe witness and encounter

681
00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:46,980
um

682
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:49,260
and I say that to all to also say that

683
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:50,580
the people who are really touching on

684
00:26:54,769 --> 00:26:51,900
the element of Consciousness here were

685
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:54,779
Jeff [\h__\h] uh through the lens of um

686
00:26:59,930 --> 00:26:56,400
basically like mystical and Transcendent

687
00:27:02,450 --> 00:26:59,940
experiences and then Sharon roll that

688
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:02,460
um and this is a great segue so I I kind

689
00:27:05,810 --> 00:27:04,140
of got the impression that she was sort

690
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:05,820
of like

691
00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:06,960
um

692
00:27:11,090 --> 00:27:08,940
I don't know kind of like a b-list

693
00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:11,100
invitee like I don't think anyone had

694
00:27:14,029 --> 00:27:12,600
heard of her she just got kind of stuck

695
00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:14,039
on the list they probably need another

696
00:27:17,390 --> 00:27:15,480
woman because they probably got some

697
00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:17,400
like comments after the first event or

698
00:27:21,950 --> 00:27:19,980
something but I unequivocally she

699
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:21,960
[\h__\h] stole the show I took notes on

700
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,940
everybody's talk and I had more I had

701
00:27:27,529 --> 00:27:25,440
probably doubled the notes of hers and

702
00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:27,539
everybody else combined she got up with

703
00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:30,179
like a few pieces of like notes and was

704
00:27:33,529 --> 00:27:31,620
like sorry guys I'm just getting over

705
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,539
the flu it's not covet I promise it

706
00:27:36,769 --> 00:27:34,799
really was the flu but I'm just gonna

707
00:27:38,090 --> 00:27:36,779
kind of wing it and she talked all about

708
00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:38,100
the role of synchronicities and

709
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:39,900
coincidences

710
00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:42,480
and of course this is like like you know

711
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:44,460
and like let's talk about the uh yeah

712
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,799
Matt Matt um so Matt and I my friend

713
00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:48,720
Matt came with me um and he just said

714
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:50,460
Sharon was a dark horse she totally was

715
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,900
I don't think anyone in that audience

716
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:54,000
really was familiar with her

717
00:27:58,850 --> 00:27:57,000
um but there there's also some nice sort

718
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:58,860
of conspiratorial background here

719
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,659
because she works for Bigelow she works

720
00:28:03,529 --> 00:28:02,159
at the Institute of Consciousness

721
00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:03,539
studies

722
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:06,659
um yeah yeah interesting um

723
00:28:11,630 --> 00:28:08,820
but um she was she was really excellent

724
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:11,640
yeah we have another comment in here

725
00:28:18,110 --> 00:28:15,600
um she was really good and and I I bring

726
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,120
her up specifically because

727
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:20,159
when she's written like

728
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:22,679
a tall story and Epic on

729
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:23,520
um

730
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:25,620
coincidences and synchronicity she has

731
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:28,559
it's like 700 page door stop about the

732
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:29,840
role of these

733
00:28:36,409 --> 00:28:32,400
but she

734
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:36,419
talked about synchronicities in a in a

735
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:39,240
way that I deeply appreciated and she

736
00:28:44,769 --> 00:28:40,620
basically

737
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:44,779
categorize them as events that

738
00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:48,720
feel personally important but seem

739
00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:51,000
totally unimportant and normal to any

740
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:52,860
outside Observer

741
00:28:58,490 --> 00:28:55,980
and that's right it's a perfect

742
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:58,500
description and it's also a good

743
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:59,880
description because it seems to make

744
00:29:03,890 --> 00:29:01,740
everybody on all ends of the spectrum

745
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:03,900
happy right because I hear that and I go

746
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,880
yep sounds about right and I'm sure

747
00:29:09,049 --> 00:29:07,440
everybody else in that Auditorium felt

748
00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:09,059
the same way and I'm sure the other

749
00:29:12,289 --> 00:29:10,679
gentlemen here this evening on the

750
00:29:13,850 --> 00:29:12,299
podcast are also like yes that's a fair

751
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:13,860
assessment

752
00:29:20,090 --> 00:29:14,720
um

753
00:29:24,049 --> 00:29:20,100
the role of synchronicities and

754
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,059
coincidences and the sort of ethereal

755
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:26,820
nature of them how they tend to occur

756
00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:28,440
and then disappear frequently without

757
00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:31,080
Witnesses without any sort of objective

758
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,480
or quantitative

759
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,000
um evidence of them ever happening but

760
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:37,679
for someone who experiences or

761
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:39,600
encounters them they feel

762
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:42,559
extremely important

763
00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:45,120
where is the demarcation line between a

764
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:47,220
coincidence and a synchronicity then I

765
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:48,360
mean it sounds like completely

766
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:50,640
subjective up to the person experiencing

767
00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:52,200
it but like

768
00:29:57,049 --> 00:29:54,360
like where do you draw that line do you

769
00:29:59,930 --> 00:29:58,610
synchronicities are for people that have

770
00:30:01,549 --> 00:29:59,940
read young or hung out in too many

771
00:30:03,470 --> 00:30:01,559
Twitter spaces

772
00:30:05,210 --> 00:30:03,480
um everyone everyone else just calls

773
00:30:06,289 --> 00:30:05,220
them coincidences

774
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:06,299
um

775
00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:11,990
I

776
00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:13,860
so this brings me back to Jeff kreypel

777
00:30:18,169 --> 00:30:15,960
so Jeff one of Jeffrey's most recent

778
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:18,179
books is called the flip and it's

779
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,940
basically about people who have largely

780
00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:23,760
LED lives of

781
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:27,960
um extremely rational materialist

782
00:30:33,289 --> 00:30:30,899
World Views that experience something of

783
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:33,299
some kind that fundamentally shift their

784
00:30:36,529 --> 00:30:35,220
reality and Paradigm in a substantial

785
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:36,539
way and a lot of these of course do

786
00:30:40,490 --> 00:30:38,940
hinge on coincidences

787
00:30:43,130 --> 00:30:40,500
um

788
00:30:48,889 --> 00:30:43,140
and I

789
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:52,490
it is hard to quantify

790
00:30:58,510 --> 00:30:55,500
and

791
00:31:01,549 --> 00:30:58,520
like the Back stories to why people find

792
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,559
coincidences or synchronicities so

793
00:31:06,830 --> 00:31:04,320
significant are usually very long and

794
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:06,840
complex and emotionally Laden

795
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,760
they're stories that only people have

796
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,559
within themselves they're not stories

797
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,440
that a friend or a partner or a brother

798
00:31:17,289 --> 00:31:15,120
or sister will really understand the

799
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,299
true significance of

800
00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:19,679
and I think

801
00:31:22,669 --> 00:31:20,460
um

802
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,679
you know the the very skeptical side of

803
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:24,240
me says

804
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:26,940
in any movement through the world we

805
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:28,500
encounter just so many different

806
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,539
opportunities for information and

807
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,820
experience to intersect and our brain is

808
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,559
extremely powerful at recognizing

809
00:31:39,289 --> 00:31:37,200
patterns and surfacing forgotten

810
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:39,299
memories or giving us feelings of deja

811
00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:42,240
vu which are you know very much the

812
00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:43,860
outputs of a brain that's evolved to

813
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:45,960
keep us safe

814
00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:48,299
um and so sort of reappropriating that

815
00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:50,340
you know

816
00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:53,880
um neurological technology in a way

817
00:32:01,130 --> 00:31:57,320
um into the numinous I think feels very

818
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:01,140
interesting like I I I I guess this is

819
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:03,120
this again is another factor of ufology

820
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:04,799
that I feel like is important and

821
00:32:09,649 --> 00:32:07,500
relevant not because I especially care

822
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,659
about its inherent importance of

823
00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:11,760
relevance

824
00:32:15,649 --> 00:32:13,320
um

825
00:32:17,810 --> 00:32:15,659
but it seems to really matter to people

826
00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:17,820
like this is these are things that are

827
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:20,340
very it's it's like contact to your

828
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:22,799
experience your experiences what's

829
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:24,120
actually going on here is completely

830
00:32:27,529 --> 00:32:25,799
immaterial to me

831
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:27,539
um what I do know is that for a lot for

832
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,919
many people who experience them these

833
00:32:31,730 --> 00:32:30,240
are among the most profound and

834
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:31,740
important things that have ever happened

835
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,200
to them in their whole lives and I'm

836
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,240
very curious and interested into as to

837
00:32:39,889 --> 00:32:37,919
why that is and how they sort of

838
00:32:42,289 --> 00:32:39,899
metabolize and understand those

839
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:42,299
experiences and kind of integrate them

840
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:44,159
into their world view and movement

841
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:52,010
if it's interesting I I've had um I've

842
00:32:56,570 --> 00:32:54,480
had experiences with a couple people on

843
00:32:58,570 --> 00:32:56,580
UFO Twitter that they have described as

844
00:33:01,370 --> 00:32:58,580
possibly synchronicities but I didn't

845
00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:01,380
personally assign the significance to it

846
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:03,659
that they may have and I'm guessing that

847
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:05,940
that's kind of that line that I was

848
00:33:10,850 --> 00:33:08,460
asking about earlier so I think it's

849
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:10,860
like you said it's coming from in the

850
00:33:16,850 --> 00:33:13,919
house I suppose yeah yeah the calls

851
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:16,860
coming from inside the house yeah

852
00:33:22,370 --> 00:33:19,919
it does sound like there's a lot of

853
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:22,380
significance being put on to how people

854
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,399
construct meaning for experiences and

855
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:28,080
that makes a lot of sense to me that all

856
00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:29,360
these things are being brought together

857
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:31,320
it's like

858
00:33:37,549 --> 00:33:33,919
what is it about experiencing something

859
00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:37,559
truly outside of your expectations about

860
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:41,340
the world like why is it that sometimes

861
00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:44,880
that produces a life-changing subjective

862
00:33:48,529 --> 00:33:46,500
experience and you could be standing

863
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,539
right next to somebody and for them it

864
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,880
was totally meaningless like there's

865
00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:53,880
something so profound about that and

866
00:33:59,149 --> 00:33:57,000
this subject clearly over time has been

867
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:59,159
moving increasingly towards that

868
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,679
unification of all of these discrete

869
00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:04,260
things into this Central thing

870
00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:07,860
and I'm just curious like for this uh

871
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,720
particular individual share uh Sharon

872
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:11,520
Hewitt roulette

873
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,580
um is she really diving into the

874
00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:17,040
construction of the meaning in this book

875
00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:19,080
is that sort of like the central Focus

876
00:34:31,609 --> 00:34:29,750
did she provide a brief synopsis in Her

877
00:34:34,070 --> 00:34:31,619
speech

878
00:34:36,050 --> 00:34:34,080
I mean if not never mind yeah I mean

879
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:36,060
like I said like she really she

880
00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:38,580
basically spoke about well she did she

881
00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:41,220
did recount a very interesting

882
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:44,339
um story where

883
00:34:50,930 --> 00:34:47,599
an individual had just watched I think

884
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:50,940
uh God I'm spacing on it maybe Carrie or

885
00:34:56,810 --> 00:34:53,700
some Stephen King movie and was

886
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:56,820
imagining what it would be like to

887
00:35:02,089 --> 00:34:59,760
perform telekinesis and knock over a

888
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:02,099
house and this person was just kind of

889
00:35:06,829 --> 00:35:04,740
sitting in their car out like on a

890
00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:06,839
street and was just kind of looking out

891
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,180
their car window watching

892
00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:11,040
um and the house they were looking at

893
00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:12,900
suddenly tipped over and they freaked

894
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,700
the [\h__\h] out because they were like holy

895
00:35:18,530 --> 00:35:16,800
[\h__\h] like

896
00:35:20,329 --> 00:35:18,540
it's just like what I saw in the movie

897
00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:20,339
yeah like the whole front facade of the

898
00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:23,640
house tipped over how did I do that yes

899
00:35:28,190 --> 00:35:26,460
yeah and she says like like this

900
00:35:31,609 --> 00:35:28,200
person's thinking to themselves how did

901
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:31,619
I do that and what happened

902
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:34,740
was there was a bulldozer behind the

903
00:35:38,990 --> 00:35:36,240
facade of the house performing

904
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:39,000
Demolition and she cited this as a

905
00:35:42,829 --> 00:35:41,040
perfect example of something that to any

906
00:35:44,569 --> 00:35:42,839
outside Observer would look like an

907
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,579
objectively normal thing to happen like

908
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,560
construction happens all the time like

909
00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:48,720
demolition happens all the time but to

910
00:35:52,190 --> 00:35:50,460
this particular person at this

911
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,200
particular moment this seemed to be

912
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,180
imbued with a Monumental degree of

913
00:35:57,890 --> 00:35:56,400
significance

914
00:36:00,109 --> 00:35:57,900
um

915
00:36:03,410 --> 00:36:00,119
and and she

916
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,420
um I I will say too that she did

917
00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:05,760
she also was very skillful at threading

918
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:08,099
the needle in terms of saying these are

919
00:36:13,310 --> 00:36:11,280
things that happen and people are

920
00:36:15,650 --> 00:36:13,320
deeply affected by them but didn't

921
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:15,660
really sort of self-insert any of her

922
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:18,240
personal views on it at all which I

923
00:36:26,210 --> 00:36:24,109
especially coming out of a Bigelow

924
00:36:29,569 --> 00:36:26,220
Institute you would expect there to be a

925
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:29,579
little bit of a projection of the intent

926
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:33,000
of the financing the studies but that's

927
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:34,560
fantastic that she's sort of holding

928
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,200
back on that side of it yeah

929
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,640
is someone in the chat said they have

930
00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:40,560
notes I'd be interesting oh yeah that's

931
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:43,500
math yeah Matt you should um definitely

932
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,880
get your notes typed up and share them

933
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:46,560
that's that's notes were extremely

934
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:47,700
thorough

935
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:49,320
um I was sitting there

936
00:36:54,109 --> 00:36:52,440
texting and tweeting at people but Matt

937
00:36:55,730 --> 00:36:54,119
was actually paying attention there's a

938
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:55,740
reason he was a valedictorian of his

939
00:37:01,730 --> 00:37:00,000
class and I was just kind of skating by

940
00:37:04,250 --> 00:37:01,740
um

941
00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:04,260
yeah Nick Campbell Lewis what are your

942
00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:05,700
thoughts on coincidences and

943
00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:07,020
synchronicities have you ever

944
00:37:12,130 --> 00:37:08,520
experienced them or do you have any

945
00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:15,250
yeah I mean that's

946
00:37:20,690 --> 00:37:17,460
any complex system you would expect

947
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,700
there to be uncanny coincidences and I

948
00:37:25,490 --> 00:37:22,800
think that um part of the problem is um

949
00:37:27,710 --> 00:37:25,500
people are scribing

950
00:37:31,370 --> 00:37:27,720
Supernatural or other such explanations

951
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:31,380
to them they may not be they may not

952
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:32,760
like be well versed in statistical

953
00:37:39,530 --> 00:37:35,880
thinking which I think is a very

954
00:37:43,069 --> 00:37:39,540
it's a good remedy to um you know

955
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:43,079
ascribing everything to a mystical cause

956
00:37:47,150 --> 00:37:45,720
um people are just generally bad I mean

957
00:37:48,589 --> 00:37:47,160
human beings are just generally bad

958
00:37:52,329 --> 00:37:48,599
statistics

959
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:52,339
um to begin with but like um

960
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:55,200
sorry I said Las Vegas proves that sorry

961
00:37:59,089 --> 00:37:57,359
to interrupt right yeah oh yeah that's a

962
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,099
good example actually maybe that's no

963
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:01,920
coincidence actually ironically

964
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:06,710
but um yeah I mean I think those sorts

965
00:38:13,790 --> 00:38:10,320
of considerations people often don't

966
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:13,800
there's a lot of there's a lot of um

967
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:16,260
maybe especially in the US but by no

968
00:38:26,450 --> 00:38:23,810
you know pseudoscientific in their

969
00:38:29,089 --> 00:38:26,460
thinking um

970
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:29,099
except pseudosciences as American as

971
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:32,400
apple pie like

972
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:35,940
well I mean people can be moved and have

973
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:38,339
uh you know find great meaning and

974
00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:42,060
delusions as well so yeah especially if

975
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:43,260
you if you're coming from your

976
00:38:46,970 --> 00:38:45,359
perspective Leah where you're uh kind of

977
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:46,980
taking expect a step back from what

978
00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:49,980
what's causing these things but uh how

979
00:38:54,849 --> 00:38:52,680
they're affecting people on and and how

980
00:38:57,650 --> 00:38:54,859
these people like view these things like

981
00:39:00,050 --> 00:38:57,660
actual delusions and mental illness can

982
00:39:02,329 --> 00:39:00,060
can have a lot of meaning for people too

983
00:39:04,430 --> 00:39:02,339
so like I've personally like I mentioned

984
00:39:06,349 --> 00:39:04,440
earlier had some strange coincidences

985
00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:06,359
and I think that that is

986
00:39:12,050 --> 00:39:08,280
um kind of just post-hoc confirmation

987
00:39:14,329 --> 00:39:12,060
bias from my perspective but maybe I

988
00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:14,339
haven't experienced one that was uh

989
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:16,500
meaningful enough you know because you

990
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:18,000
said there's kind of a there's kind of a

991
00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:21,240
spectrum to that right so my I've had

992
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:22,920
weird coincidences I think I've shared

993
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:24,420
them with you guys before

994
00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:26,700
um Justin I think it was in researching

995
00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:29,280
The Hudson Valley I had a weird one but

996
00:39:32,410 --> 00:39:29,940
um

997
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:34,730
what was the coincidence

998
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:38,220
oh I was uh what dick roll I was I was

999
00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:40,079
asking around about Dick roll

1000
00:39:45,530 --> 00:39:42,359
um who was an investigator for app pro

1001
00:39:47,390 --> 00:39:45,540
and uh I also noticed that my there's a

1002
00:39:49,730 --> 00:39:47,400
free conspiracy magazine called The

1003
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,740
Observer that you get in paper in the

1004
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,359
mail I was like man I haven't gotten an

1005
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:54,000
issue with this analog style yeah and

1006
00:39:57,530 --> 00:39:55,980
then that day it showed up in the mail

1007
00:40:00,170 --> 00:39:57,540
and there was a tiny obituary for dick

1008
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,180
Groll I was like oh that what a what a

1009
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:02,640
weird one but I mean I don't assigned

1010
00:40:06,849 --> 00:40:04,320
any kind of like

1011
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:06,859
um personal value or mysticism to that

1012
00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:11,119
but it it did line up pretty weird

1013
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:15,000
I am oh yeah if he's making some good

1014
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:16,680
comments here statistics involves a lot

1015
00:40:20,210 --> 00:40:18,420
of reciprocals and our brains don't

1016
00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:20,220
handle it very well

1017
00:40:24,650 --> 00:40:23,460
um very true and yeah um there's a big

1018
00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:24,660
part of the reason people can't think

1019
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,440
statistically that's also extremely true

1020
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:30,960
um and I say that uh this this actually

1021
00:40:33,950 --> 00:40:32,880
when we're talking about synchronicities

1022
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,960
here

1023
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:36,240
um I had the happy circumstance of

1024
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,460
flunking statistics both twice and

1025
00:40:42,290 --> 00:40:40,560
undergraduate and twice in graduate

1026
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:42,300
school now I have a graduate degree from

1027
00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:43,680
one of the top engineering schools in

1028
00:40:46,849 --> 00:40:44,940
the country I've taken differential

1029
00:40:49,210 --> 00:40:46,859
equations calculus one and two linear

1030
00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:49,220
algebra I am relatively good at math

1031
00:40:52,670 --> 00:40:51,300
statistics just kicked my ass up and

1032
00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:52,680
down the block and I am now a

1033
00:40:57,230 --> 00:40:55,500
professional data scientist so um not

1034
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,240
all hope is lost if you know how to do a

1035
00:41:01,250 --> 00:40:59,040
little bit of stats you're still far and

1036
00:41:02,030 --> 00:41:01,260
above the average bear

1037
00:41:07,609 --> 00:41:02,040
um

1038
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:07,619
exactly right uh this I think about this

1039
00:41:11,329 --> 00:41:09,300
in terms of

1040
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:11,339
um complexity and information exchange

1041
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,900
and sort of

1042
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,200
bottom up and top down information

1043
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:18,240
passing in a complex system

1044
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:19,619
and

1045
00:41:25,609 --> 00:41:22,020
just the

1046
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:25,619
to me if I'm going to

1047
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:27,900
put away my crystals and Tarot deck and

1048
00:41:33,710 --> 00:41:30,780
speak as someone with

1049
00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:33,720
um a rigorous scientific education I

1050
00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:35,780
would say that

1051
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:39,240
synchronicities and coincidences speak

1052
00:41:44,270 --> 00:41:41,880
more to our brain's capacity to store

1053
00:41:47,329 --> 00:41:44,280
and retrieve extraordinary amounts of

1054
00:41:49,730 --> 00:41:47,339
Rich data than anything else the fact

1055
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:49,740
that because like Nick when you got this

1056
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:51,240
this

1057
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,460
like it's not like you were thinking but

1058
00:41:58,370 --> 00:41:55,920
right before you opened your mailbox oh

1059
00:42:00,770 --> 00:41:58,380
this Magazine's gonna be here you

1060
00:42:02,569 --> 00:42:00,780
thought oh wow this Magazine's here wow

1061
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:02,579
I was just thinking about that like this

1062
00:42:06,589 --> 00:42:04,500
kind of like retro application of

1063
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:06,599
meaning yep

1064
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:08,700
um rather than

1065
00:42:11,930 --> 00:42:10,140
um you know where you have this

1066
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,940
experience and it then triggers the

1067
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:13,680
surfacing of some kind of memory or

1068
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:16,440
recollection that at that moment seems

1069
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:19,740
unique or particular at that specific uh

1070
00:42:23,329 --> 00:42:21,780
point in time

1071
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,339
that's something that I've thought about

1072
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:25,200
on this too before it's kind of like

1073
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:27,119
exactly self-selective like if you win

1074
00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:29,460
the lottery and you wrote down the

1075
00:42:32,329 --> 00:42:30,540
numbers that happened to get drawn

1076
00:42:34,250 --> 00:42:32,339
that's kind of a coincidence it's a

1077
00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:34,260
useful a lot of people take a personal

1078
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:35,880
responsibility for that

1079
00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:38,400
dude it reminds me of James Randy like

1080
00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:40,440
James Randy every single day used to

1081
00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:41,820
write that ticket and put in his wallet

1082
00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:44,460
about how today you know December 14th

1083
00:42:48,349 --> 00:42:46,260
is the day that I die and he would do

1084
00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:48,359
that every single day because he wanted

1085
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:51,060
he wanted when he died someone to find

1086
00:42:54,530 --> 00:42:52,680
that ticket in his wallet and know that

1087
00:42:55,630 --> 00:42:54,540
he predicted his own death right like I

1088
00:42:58,670 --> 00:42:55,640
love that

1089
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,680
genius yeah I know it's brilliant and he

1090
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:01,440
proved it right and that's how James

1091
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:10,309
um yeah okay yeah so Vapor missile says

1092
00:43:13,069 --> 00:43:11,520
I had a couple of pronounced

1093
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:13,079
coincidences and wrote them down and had

1094
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:14,640
more it rapidly got out of control like

1095
00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:15,900
the universe as a big Ouija board

1096
00:43:21,770 --> 00:43:18,420
confirmation but did so this is this is

1097
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,780
very interesting so when I was um and

1098
00:43:25,609 --> 00:43:23,640
like I anyone who's tuned in has heard

1099
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:25,619
me speak a lot about experiences of

1100
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:27,119
spiritual emergence

1101
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:29,160
um which in many respects the overlap

1102
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:30,780
between spiritual emergence and like

1103
00:43:34,730 --> 00:43:33,480
psychosis and Mania um there's

1104
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:34,740
definitely an overlap in that Venn

1105
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:36,720
diagram it's not a circle but there's

1106
00:43:40,849 --> 00:43:39,119
overlap and I say that because when I

1107
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:40,859
was going through mine

1108
00:43:43,609 --> 00:43:41,520
um

1109
00:43:45,410 --> 00:43:43,619
had sort of all the classic Hallmarks of

1110
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:45,420
like enhanced cognition lots of energy

1111
00:43:48,890 --> 00:43:47,220
like lots of

1112
00:43:50,329 --> 00:43:48,900
um extraordinary amounts of creativity

1113
00:43:52,010 --> 00:43:50,339
and output

1114
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,020
um it was probably the the most

1115
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,960
productive period of my career as well

1116
00:44:01,790 --> 00:43:58,079
um but I also it felt like I was living

1117
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:01,800
in a a universe that was constantly that

1118
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:03,300
there was constantly bi-directional

1119
00:44:07,130 --> 00:44:05,040
communication between me and everything

1120
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:07,140
that surrounded me at all times in a

1121
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,140
very sort of ambiguous like non-verbal

1122
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,200
way like not in a discreet thought or

1123
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,839
word conveyance but in a sense that it

1124
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:17,760
it there was a very powerful sense I

1125
00:44:21,050 --> 00:44:20,040
guess of non-duality and I think that

1126
00:44:22,849 --> 00:44:21,060
when we start talking about

1127
00:44:24,530 --> 00:44:22,859
synchronicities and people start sort of

1128
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:24,540
obsessing over them because this is

1129
00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:25,680
definitely something we see in the

1130
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:27,240
ecological Community we see an

1131
00:44:32,089 --> 00:44:29,460
assignment of major value and meaning to

1132
00:44:35,569 --> 00:44:32,099
coincidences and synchronicities

1133
00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:35,579
um with the common view that

1134
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,140
synchronicities themselves are a

1135
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,880
positive feedback loop that as you

1136
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:40,319
figure things out and put together

1137
00:44:43,970 --> 00:44:42,540
puzzle pieces your synchronicities start

1138
00:44:45,890 --> 00:44:43,980
ratcheting up

1139
00:44:47,690 --> 00:44:45,900
and uh Vapor missiles comment just

1140
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,700
reminded me of that like this idea that

1141
00:44:51,170 --> 00:44:49,680
the more you kind of lean into this

1142
00:44:53,089 --> 00:44:51,180
framework and the more you lean into

1143
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,099
everything being imbued with some kind

1144
00:44:57,470 --> 00:44:55,200
of hidden information or meaning the

1145
00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:57,480
more it tends to curate and cultivate

1146
00:45:01,430 --> 00:45:00,119
that that sort of thought cycle which

1147
00:45:03,950 --> 00:45:01,440
very quickly I mean if you're already

1148
00:45:06,170 --> 00:45:03,960
prone to like psychosis or Mania or

1149
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:06,180
anything else or um if we're going to

1150
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:07,680
talk about meditation like theorizing

1151
00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:10,140
and passing away experiences like these

1152
00:45:14,210 --> 00:45:11,819
behaviors very deliberately cultivate

1153
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,220
those kinds of experiences

1154
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:16,079
um I mean are we're very like humans are

1155
00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:17,520
extremely good at shaping their brain

1156
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,380
into doing all sorts of weird [\h__\h] about

1157
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,599
for better or worse and that reminds me

1158
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,520
of like the classic self-help books

1159
00:45:26,750 --> 00:45:24,960
where it's like you know whatever wanted

1160
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:26,760
we should do it or whatever it's like

1161
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,000
you materialize what yeah yeah I didn't

1162
00:45:35,390 --> 00:45:32,640
read it I admit but um you materialize

1163
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,400
what you want through like thinking

1164
00:45:39,890 --> 00:45:37,920
about it and like you know

1165
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,900
there could just be an intrinsic

1166
00:45:42,530 --> 00:45:41,040
mechanism where when you're thinking

1167
00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:42,540
about more actively you're more likely

1168
00:45:45,290 --> 00:45:43,800
to actually having a cough like

1169
00:45:47,930 --> 00:45:45,300
accomplished

1170
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:47,940
um that said like I'm not closed off to

1171
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:50,280
this stuff uh being something uh

1172
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:53,760
extremely uh you know Fantastical is

1173
00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:55,800
surprising off of the charts it's just

1174
00:46:00,530 --> 00:45:58,319
that I haven't seen evidence of that

1175
00:46:02,510 --> 00:46:00,540
that's compelling so far that said like

1176
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,520
I wouldn't even be closed off to think

1177
00:46:05,630 --> 00:46:04,079
of it like it doesn't have to be like

1178
00:46:08,089 --> 00:46:05,640
Supernatural or something like I could

1179
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:08,099
imagine under a deterministic purely

1180
00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:10,680
materialistic Universe like there could

1181
00:46:16,309 --> 00:46:13,319
be processes that are producing repeated

1182
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:16,319
uh patterns that we see as coincidences

1183
00:46:19,550 --> 00:46:18,180
and that's purely natural too so so

1184
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:19,560
there are a lot of variety there's a

1185
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,500
variety of options available I think

1186
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:24,960
and maybe I could just ask how did you

1187
00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:26,760
do you remember how you were processing

1188
00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:28,859
your experience in that state that you

1189
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:30,300
were describing a couple minutes ago

1190
00:46:35,089 --> 00:46:31,980
yeah that's um that's a great question

1191
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:35,099
so the first thing I'll say is

1192
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:36,720
um

1193
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:40,380
I had some sense of what was going on

1194
00:46:44,329 --> 00:46:42,720
like I I like and I say that because I

1195
00:46:46,849 --> 00:46:44,339
had read so much about things like

1196
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,859
Kundalini experiences Transcendence I've

1197
00:46:49,849 --> 00:46:48,240
been had this kind of intellectual

1198
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:49,859
preoccupation with the subject I just

1199
00:46:52,690 --> 00:46:51,960
never thought it would ever happen to me

1200
00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,700
um

1201
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:54,480
and

1202
00:46:57,890 --> 00:46:55,200
um

1203
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:57,900
it was not a deliberately cultivated

1204
00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:59,640
experience it was at a time where there

1205
00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:01,260
was and a lot of people actually Jules

1206
00:47:05,569 --> 00:47:03,180
Evans wrote our

1207
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:05,579
um edited a great anthology of essays

1208
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,140
called breaking open which is a

1209
00:47:09,950 --> 00:47:08,640
collection of I think 15 essays about

1210
00:47:12,109 --> 00:47:09,960
people who have also gone through some

1211
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:12,119
kind of spiritual emergence event or

1212
00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:13,740
whatever

1213
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:19,970
and at a a very intense interval of

1214
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:22,079
immense grief and Trauma I was I was in

1215
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:24,420
this extremely devastating abusive

1216
00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:26,280
relationship just like being dismantled

1217
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:27,960
emotionally

1218
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:30,240
um which created just a sense of um

1219
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,400
total destabilization and like sort of

1220
00:47:38,089 --> 00:47:35,280
like loss of self it was isolated for a

1221
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:38,099
protracted period under covid

1222
00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:39,660
um and then

1223
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:41,640
um I I also started to get very serious

1224
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:43,619
about meditation and breath work

1225
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,960
uh I listen to a lot of ramdas which

1226
00:47:47,930 --> 00:47:47,280
probably helped

1227
00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:47,940
um

1228
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:49,980
and the final thing is I actually got

1229
00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:51,839
really really into complexity for the

1230
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,980
first time that's when I started taking

1231
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:54,960
classes at the Santa Fe Institute in

1232
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,319
complex science agent-based modeling

1233
00:48:01,010 --> 00:47:59,760
um and started to prepare actually to

1234
00:48:02,569 --> 00:48:01,020
apply for a doctoral program in

1235
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,579
intelligence systems and I say all of

1236
00:48:04,849 --> 00:48:04,319
this because

1237
00:48:08,690 --> 00:48:04,859
um

1238
00:48:10,849 --> 00:48:08,700
I read the book when we ceased to

1239
00:48:12,650 --> 00:48:10,859
understand the World by Benjamin labutat

1240
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:12,660
which I'm sure if anyone follows me on

1241
00:48:17,930 --> 00:48:14,220
Twitter you've likely seen me talk about

1242
00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:17,940
this book because this book is very much

1243
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:19,980
um an arising and passing away or a

1244
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:22,319
spiritual emergence or an experience in

1245
00:48:27,309 --> 00:48:24,240
a book because it ties together these

1246
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,319
ideas of non-duality and complexity into

1247
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,520
extremely advanced math and quantum

1248
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:31,200
physics sort of tells the story of

1249
00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:33,780
Schwartz child and Schrodinger

1250
00:48:40,910 --> 00:48:36,660
um and connects it to the the truths

1251
00:48:43,250 --> 00:48:40,920
contained in the the vedos and the Gita

1252
00:48:44,329 --> 00:48:43,260
um so that is all a very long way to say

1253
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:44,339
that

1254
00:48:48,349 --> 00:48:46,200
I knew it wasn't a manic episode because

1255
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,359
I had no history of that ever I had the

1256
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:49,920
classic Millennial Trifecta of

1257
00:48:54,589 --> 00:48:52,260
depression anxiety and add

1258
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,599
um I had

1259
00:48:58,609 --> 00:48:57,119
enough kind of background knowledge to

1260
00:49:01,010 --> 00:48:58,619
know

1261
00:49:02,170 --> 00:49:01,020
um that these experiences like what sort

1262
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:02,180
of

1263
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,520
separates them from like a psychosis or

1264
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:07,680
from Mania is uh Astana slav and

1265
00:49:12,010 --> 00:49:09,119
Christina Graf said is that when someone

1266
00:49:14,930 --> 00:49:12,020
undergoes a spiritual emergence

1267
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:14,940
they um fracture and then move back

1268
00:49:18,770 --> 00:49:17,220
towards wholeness whereas in psychosis

1269
00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:18,780
and Mania the fracturing will continue

1270
00:49:23,089 --> 00:49:21,300
like it basically continues sort of

1271
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:23,099
splitting the personality and the trauma

1272
00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:24,900
and it's very you can't really recover

1273
00:49:28,130 --> 00:49:26,220
from it

1274
00:49:29,870 --> 00:49:28,140
um I knew enough to not seek psychiatric

1275
00:49:31,849 --> 00:49:29,880
help because I knew enough that if I did

1276
00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:31,859
like I just get homes full of benzos or

1277
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:33,420
hospitalized or whatever and I I was

1278
00:49:37,730 --> 00:49:35,400
totally functional I just had was like

1279
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:37,740
just almost like functioning at like 120

1280
00:49:42,410 --> 00:49:40,079
it was pretty pretty wild

1281
00:49:45,290 --> 00:49:42,420
um but um

1282
00:49:46,730 --> 00:49:45,300
I also say all this because I I it was a

1283
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:46,740
progressive experience over probably

1284
00:49:50,270 --> 00:49:48,660
like six weeks or so and I can remember

1285
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:50,280
thinking around like week four being

1286
00:49:54,890 --> 00:49:53,460
like this has got to like

1287
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,900
chill out because otherwise it's gonna

1288
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:57,359
break my brain like

1289
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,200
um it's um and I um

1290
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:02,880
I mean I eventually did get like really

1291
00:50:07,250 --> 00:50:06,000
re-grounded and I mean big kudos to sort

1292
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,260
of my family and my friends at that

1293
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,640
point who were extremely patient and

1294
00:50:11,870 --> 00:50:10,319
loving and supportive and like I only

1295
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:11,880
talked to a couple of people about it at

1296
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,260
the time because I was like I don't want

1297
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:15,359
this pathologized like I I feel like

1298
00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:17,700
this is just a normal experience that a

1299
00:50:20,690 --> 00:50:18,780
lot of people have they just don't

1300
00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:20,700
really know about it

1301
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:21,540
um

1302
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:24,000
so

1303
00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:24,900
um

1304
00:50:32,349 --> 00:50:30,180
it

1305
00:50:34,609 --> 00:50:32,359
followed sort of the very classic

1306
00:50:36,290 --> 00:50:34,619
description that I had read and was

1307
00:50:38,809 --> 00:50:36,300
familiar with through stanislav graph

1308
00:50:40,550 --> 00:50:38,819
through the work of Daniel Ingram

1309
00:50:43,069 --> 00:50:40,560
um through

1310
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:43,079
um she is Emma bragdon's book the call

1311
00:50:46,430 --> 00:50:45,119
of spiritual emergency that's that one's

1312
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:46,440
a little bit far out I'm not sure I'd

1313
00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:48,420
categorically recommend that one

1314
00:50:51,890 --> 00:50:50,460
um but I'll just say that like oh and I

1315
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,900
also read this great book from Quest

1316
00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:53,280
Publications called the common

1317
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:55,260
experience and it basically talks about

1318
00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:56,760
how these experiences are like super

1319
00:51:00,890 --> 00:50:58,260
common and we just like don't really

1320
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:00,900
talk about them because you know it's

1321
00:51:04,670 --> 00:51:02,700
totally far out and it freaks people out

1322
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:04,680
and we're you know we just don't have

1323
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:06,720
cultural scripts and narratives

1324
00:51:10,190 --> 00:51:07,440
um

1325
00:51:11,030 --> 00:51:10,200
but what's interesting

1326
00:51:13,069 --> 00:51:11,040
um

1327
00:51:14,569 --> 00:51:13,079
is

1328
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,579
it

1329
00:51:18,049 --> 00:51:16,319
there's this part in mastering the core

1330
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:18,059
teachings of the Buddha by Daniel Ingram

1331
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:20,160
which is sort of like a pragmatic Dharma

1332
00:51:23,329 --> 00:51:21,599
guide book he talks about the experience

1333
00:51:24,650 --> 00:51:23,339
of the arising and passing away and sort

1334
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:24,660
of the

1335
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:28,319
um that it will frequently instigate and

1336
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:29,819
somebody

1337
00:51:34,849 --> 00:51:32,400
like this obsessive drive towards

1338
00:51:37,309 --> 00:51:34,859
exploring Buddhism and the Dharma and as

1339
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:37,319
anyone who knows me now that's exactly

1340
00:51:41,450 --> 00:51:39,660
how it's unfolded like like I've spent

1341
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:41,460
this like so much time now in this deep

1342
00:51:45,950 --> 00:51:43,380
dive into

1343
00:51:49,549 --> 00:51:45,960
um meditation and into Dharma studies

1344
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:49,559
you mentioned that uh the experience you

1345
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:52,319
transitioned from the state of high

1346
00:51:58,250 --> 00:51:54,180
creativity and intensity into a more

1347
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:58,260
stable State and you described how some

1348
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:00,480
people don't successfully make that

1349
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:02,880
transition and I'm curious if you have

1350
00:52:09,049 --> 00:52:06,300
any thoughts about to what extent the

1351
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:09,059
social circumstance of the individual

1352
00:52:12,890 --> 00:52:11,940
might play a part in that for example if

1353
00:52:15,410 --> 00:52:12,900
you have

1354
00:52:18,770 --> 00:52:15,420
community of friends and family who are

1355
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,780
there to support and help process in a

1356
00:52:23,210 --> 00:52:20,400
positive way and you know that you have

1357
00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:23,220
that support there regardless is that is

1358
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:25,260
that I'm wondering if that maybe has

1359
00:52:29,329 --> 00:52:27,839
some significant role to play in this

1360
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:29,339
transition into the positive

1361
00:52:35,329 --> 00:52:32,640
interpretation yeah that's um and that's

1362
00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:35,339
um a lot of what graph writes about that

1363
00:52:39,230 --> 00:52:37,380
basically like

1364
00:52:41,150 --> 00:52:39,240
um for people to come out on the other

1365
00:52:43,609 --> 00:52:41,160
side of these experiences in a way that

1366
00:52:46,130 --> 00:52:43,619
doesn't harm them in any sense and may

1367
00:52:47,630 --> 00:52:46,140
actually be like I don't I see I don't

1368
00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:47,640
want to romanticizer and say it's really

1369
00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:49,140
beneficial

1370
00:52:54,589 --> 00:52:52,140
um or even good for people but it just

1371
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:54,599
that

1372
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:56,760
I think

1373
00:53:01,069 --> 00:52:59,280
one um sort of normalizing these

1374
00:53:02,510 --> 00:53:01,079
experiences in a sense like of like

1375
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:02,520
understanding them is just part of

1376
00:53:06,109 --> 00:53:05,400
things that happen to humans

1377
00:53:08,450 --> 00:53:06,119
um

1378
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:08,460
and then also

1379
00:53:13,069 --> 00:53:09,780
um

1380
00:53:14,569 --> 00:53:13,079
having the luxury of environments that

1381
00:53:16,910 --> 00:53:14,579
are able to provide this sort of

1382
00:53:19,490 --> 00:53:16,920
spaciousness for a lot of people during

1383
00:53:21,410 --> 00:53:19,500
these experiences like mine was pretty

1384
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:21,420
well restrained and under control I just

1385
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:23,160
like worked a lot and was like wrote a

1386
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:25,500
lot and painted and like it was it was

1387
00:53:31,190 --> 00:53:28,140
extremely creative and sort of prolific

1388
00:53:33,589 --> 00:53:31,200
but um I I think what happens or what

1389
00:53:36,130 --> 00:53:33,599
can kind of tilt these into extremely

1390
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:36,140
deleterious events for many people is

1391
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:39,119
this sort of external pressures to

1392
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:43,079
immediately be well and grounded and

1393
00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:45,359
also again this inclination to

1394
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:47,099
immediately pathologize these

1395
00:53:52,010 --> 00:53:49,680
experiences into like Mania or psychosis

1396
00:53:53,870 --> 00:53:52,020
and give people medication and the

1397
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,880
reality is that for a lot of people not

1398
00:53:56,809 --> 00:53:55,200
everyone

1399
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:56,819
um but for a lot of people who

1400
00:54:01,130 --> 00:53:59,520
experience this where it is categorized

1401
00:54:02,390 --> 00:54:01,140
as Mania

1402
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:02,400
um they're never going to have another

1403
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:04,079
episode for the rest of their lives it

1404
00:54:06,770 --> 00:54:05,280
was just like one thing that happened

1405
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:06,780
one time

1406
00:54:12,109 --> 00:54:09,599
um and it kind of leaves them this very

1407
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:12,119
fractured sense of self that is kind of

1408
00:54:15,470 --> 00:54:14,160
unnecessary

1409
00:54:19,790 --> 00:54:15,480
um

1410
00:54:22,130 --> 00:54:19,800
I uh and again I do want to plug Jules

1411
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:22,140
Evans book on this breaking open and I

1412
00:54:25,190 --> 00:54:23,520
say that because

1413
00:54:27,230 --> 00:54:25,200
there's some really interesting findings

1414
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,240
in it like not just the commonality of

1415
00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:29,040
these experiences but the environments

1416
00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:30,420
that can frequently trigger them like

1417
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,619
the most common place where people

1418
00:54:35,210 --> 00:54:33,119
experience this stuff is actually in

1419
00:54:36,349 --> 00:54:35,220
airports which is kind of interesting

1420
00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:36,359
because they're these like super

1421
00:54:41,150 --> 00:54:39,240
emotionally charged liminal spaces

1422
00:54:41,809 --> 00:54:41,160
um they're sort of like

1423
00:54:44,329 --> 00:54:41,819
um

1424
00:54:47,329 --> 00:54:44,339
very dissociative

1425
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:47,339
um and can be like extremely stressful

1426
00:54:51,770 --> 00:54:49,500
for people to go through

1427
00:54:53,809 --> 00:54:51,780
um lots of you know not to get super woo

1428
00:54:56,930 --> 00:54:53,819
but like also very very high emotional

1429
00:54:59,210 --> 00:54:56,940
energy as well can exist in those spaces

1430
00:55:00,770 --> 00:54:59,220
um and they can uh frequently trigger

1431
00:55:02,510 --> 00:55:00,780
those events in people which is just

1432
00:55:04,849 --> 00:55:02,520
kind of fascinating yeah I've never

1433
00:55:06,410 --> 00:55:04,859
heard that that is

1434
00:55:08,650 --> 00:55:06,420
airports yeah I think you know there's

1435
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:08,660
so much symbolism you could uh

1436
00:55:13,069 --> 00:55:11,040
and that's maybe the largest buildings

1437
00:55:14,690 --> 00:55:13,079
that you can go into in some cases too

1438
00:55:16,730 --> 00:55:14,700
there's a lot going on there yeah

1439
00:55:17,390 --> 00:55:16,740
there's there's a whole lot going on

1440
00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:17,400
um

1441
00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:19,980
and maybe and I mean yes well I was

1442
00:55:23,329 --> 00:55:21,540
going to say too like I just think like

1443
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:23,339
you know like look as we're undergoing

1444
00:55:27,010 --> 00:55:25,140
this like psychedelic Renaissance

1445
00:55:29,329 --> 00:55:27,020
um and sort of people are taking up

1446
00:55:32,270 --> 00:55:29,339
psychedelic experiences that do not

1447
00:55:35,089 --> 00:55:32,280
involve exogenous psychedelics so uh

1448
00:55:37,549 --> 00:55:35,099
holotropic breath work fasting

1449
00:55:38,809 --> 00:55:37,559
um sensory deprivation things like that

1450
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:38,819
um I think

1451
00:55:41,930 --> 00:55:40,079
you know

1452
00:55:43,549 --> 00:55:41,940
um on the one hand we can talk about how

1453
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:43,559
an openness to the qualitative

1454
00:55:47,870 --> 00:55:46,260
subjective Human Experience is having

1455
00:55:49,849 --> 00:55:47,880
the catastrophic and unpleasant effect

1456
00:55:50,809 --> 00:55:49,859
of unwinding consensus reality and

1457
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:50,819
contributing to the sort of

1458
00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:52,920
epistemological Crisis but on the other

1459
00:55:58,270 --> 00:55:55,260
hand we're also seeing

1460
00:56:02,510 --> 00:55:58,280
um I think a um

1461
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:02,520
uh larger kind of cultural comfort with

1462
00:56:06,049 --> 00:56:04,260
the vicissitudes of Human Experience

1463
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:06,059
like with the sort of depth and

1464
00:56:09,530 --> 00:56:07,920
complexity of the emotional and

1465
00:56:11,569 --> 00:56:09,540
psychological and spiritual experience

1466
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:11,579
that is accessible to the average person

1467
00:56:16,730 --> 00:56:14,880
it's not just for priests or Jesuits or

1468
00:56:19,490 --> 00:56:16,740
shamans this is stuff that the average

1469
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:19,500
person at home you know if you take a

1470
00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:21,540
holotropic breathwork retreat

1471
00:56:25,790 --> 00:56:23,880
um you too can like lay on a floor and

1472
00:56:28,370 --> 00:56:25,800
breathe really hard for an hour and have

1473
00:56:30,290 --> 00:56:28,380
visions of like being born in the 12th

1474
00:56:32,569 --> 00:56:30,300
century of Ireland or whatever like like

1475
00:56:33,410 --> 00:56:32,579
this is accessible stuff

1476
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,420
um

1477
00:56:37,069 --> 00:56:35,760
and I think

1478
00:56:39,049 --> 00:56:37,079
um

1479
00:56:40,849 --> 00:56:39,059
I mean man I could I could do a whole

1480
00:56:43,730 --> 00:56:40,859
episode basically on how I think that

1481
00:56:45,710 --> 00:56:43,740
like we are a deeply deeply traumatized

1482
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,720
culture right now in a deeply

1483
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:48,000
traumatized people and

1484
00:56:54,410 --> 00:56:51,680
um these encounters and experiences with

1485
00:56:55,069 --> 00:56:54,420
expanded Consciousness

1486
00:56:58,010 --> 00:56:55,079
um

1487
00:56:59,450 --> 00:56:58,020
are ultimately I would hope contributing

1488
00:57:01,549 --> 00:56:59,460
it to some degree with the healing of

1489
00:57:03,049 --> 00:57:01,559
that trauma but also that we are

1490
00:57:04,730 --> 00:57:03,059
collectively becoming more comfortable

1491
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,740
with sort of the varieties of Human

1492
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:07,200
Experience well beyond what we're sort

1493
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:10,079
of fed through mass media or trying to

1494
00:57:13,970 --> 00:57:11,640
flatten our identities and behaviors

1495
00:57:15,770 --> 00:57:13,980
into just being productive automatons

1496
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:15,780
for whoever our bosses are at a given

1497
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:16,680
time

1498
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,540
um you you can tell I don't have a job

1499
00:57:24,530 --> 00:57:19,920
right now because I could talk about

1500
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:27,890
um well let's uh this is a great place I

1501
00:57:32,329 --> 00:57:30,000
think for us to the sort of transition

1502
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,339
because you're talking about a peer

1503
00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:35,040
transition in your life and uh we're

1504
00:57:41,630 --> 00:57:39,180
here to find out who is Leah Prime so oh

1505
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:41,640
yeah yeah let's switch to the AMA dive

1506
00:57:46,010 --> 00:57:43,260
in there yeah I think now is the perfect

1507
00:57:48,370 --> 00:57:46,020
time to switch to the AMA yes yeah sorry

1508
00:57:50,270 --> 00:57:48,380
folks I could I could chatter

1509
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:50,280
that's what they're here for I'm sure

1510
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,500
they're upset with us uh typing into

1511
00:57:58,130 --> 00:57:55,440
these things yeah so this is uh the the

1512
00:58:00,650 --> 00:57:58,140
resident artist here Nick made this

1513
00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:00,660
thumbnail who is Leah Prime no one I ask

1514
00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:03,300
knows so this is uh become a little bit

1515
00:58:07,549 --> 00:58:05,940
of a micro meme in the community and um

1516
00:58:09,710 --> 00:58:07,559
this is I think a perfect question to

1517
00:58:11,089 --> 00:58:09,720
kick off our Ama or ask me anything with

1518
00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:11,099
the invisible night school and please

1519
00:58:14,750 --> 00:58:12,900
ask my other colleagues questions here

1520
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,760
because I'm running out of tea and

1521
00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:16,380
um anyway

1522
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:20,460
um so this uh was born of um the Beloved

1523
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:22,559
Linda Thompson in the ufology community

1524
00:58:27,290 --> 00:58:25,200
uh back in June or excuse me in August

1525
00:58:31,190 --> 00:58:27,300
when I started poking my head out to

1526
00:58:32,990 --> 00:58:31,200
start doing spaces and live streams um

1527
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:33,000
one of them was retweeted and this was

1528
00:58:38,329 --> 00:58:34,980
something that Linda again a major

1529
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:38,339
figure in this space asked and went on

1530
00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:40,740
to prompt a whole Bevy of accusations

1531
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:43,260
about me being an operator or Intel I'm

1532
00:58:46,190 --> 00:58:44,760
sorry to report I'm neither an OP nor

1533
00:58:52,250 --> 00:58:46,200
intelligence someone with way too much

1534
00:58:58,970 --> 00:58:56,390
um that was the birth of um of this meme

1535
00:59:02,630 --> 00:58:58,980
um and from here I uh

1536
00:59:05,329 --> 00:59:02,640
you know we should open up for questions

1537
00:59:07,549 --> 00:59:05,339
yeah absolutely

1538
00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:07,559
now I think you had uh you had a couple

1539
00:59:11,870 --> 00:59:09,960
sent to you before the show right yeah I

1540
00:59:14,450 --> 00:59:11,880
did um so one of the questions I

1541
00:59:16,670 --> 00:59:14,460
received from a listener is um

1542
00:59:19,250 --> 00:59:16,680
in your opinion or the opinions of the

1543
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:19,260
hosts what is the phenomena and does it

1544
00:59:32,329 --> 00:59:29,589
oh my God

1545
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:32,339
let me think what should I say what I

1546
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:35,760
actually think yeah it is my opinion

1547
00:59:40,670 --> 00:59:37,619
based on

1548
00:59:42,829 --> 00:59:40,680
variety of academic sources I have cited

1549
00:59:46,609 --> 00:59:42,839
on my website that the most likely

1550
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,619
conclusion to this is that as a variety

1551
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:48,480
of academics and the UK Ministry of

1552
00:59:51,890 --> 00:59:50,460
Defense CIA US Air Force yada yada have

1553
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:51,900
gone on in their personal documents to

1554
00:59:58,130 --> 00:59:54,319
say that this is likely a novel

1555
00:59:59,930 --> 00:59:58,140
atmospheric phenomenon uh Akin in some

1556
01:00:01,390 --> 00:59:59,940
ways do ball lightning but slightly

1557
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:01,400
different

1558
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:04,319
uh it's uh you know that's that's sort

1559
01:00:09,230 --> 01:00:06,540
of my interpretation I think the NASA

1560
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:09,240
UAP study group that had a researcher

1561
01:00:13,010 --> 01:00:11,040
there in personal Communications he's

1562
01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:13,020
already started citing skirmians form of

1563
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:15,660
all lightning reproducible in the lab

1564
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,280
seems like that's the way this is headed

1565
01:00:21,230 --> 01:00:19,440
uh I think that's where this is going

1566
01:00:22,490 --> 01:00:21,240
that's what I think is happening

1567
01:00:23,809 --> 01:00:22,500
I'm not going to say that's for sure

1568
01:00:25,490 --> 01:00:23,819
what's happening I'm open to whatever

1569
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:25,500
that could be one of many things just to

1570
01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:26,880
be clear but I think that's what the

1571
01:00:30,289 --> 01:00:28,380
main thing is that

1572
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,299
going on right I think there are you

1573
01:00:35,089 --> 01:00:32,640
know there's there's a number of things

1574
01:00:37,490 --> 01:00:35,099
happening that we're all kind of uh

1575
01:00:40,190 --> 01:00:37,500
changing together just because it fits

1576
01:00:41,630 --> 01:00:40,200
the category of unknown or currently

1577
01:00:43,730 --> 01:00:41,640
unsolved

1578
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:43,740
um I I agree with a lot of what uh

1579
01:00:48,109 --> 01:00:45,359
Campbell's putting forward in fact I

1580
01:00:50,210 --> 01:00:48,119
think that's one of the better uh one of

1581
01:00:51,470 --> 01:00:50,220
the better conclusions for the Lake

1582
01:00:53,150 --> 01:00:51,480
Michigan case that I'm working on it

1583
01:00:56,569 --> 01:00:53,160
seems to fit all it seems to check all

1584
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:56,579
the boxes what I think of the phenomenon

1585
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,760
in in general I think and we were

1586
01:01:03,410 --> 01:01:01,200
talking about this earlier Campbell I

1587
01:01:06,910 --> 01:01:03,420
think it's um

1588
01:01:09,710 --> 01:01:06,920
people kind of personifying and creating

1589
01:01:12,289 --> 01:01:09,720
emissaries of the unknown like creating

1590
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:12,299
these things in our own image where you

1591
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,859
know we're afraid of being alone in the

1592
01:01:17,809 --> 01:01:15,359
universe in the vastness of space and

1593
01:01:20,270 --> 01:01:17,819
we're afraid of death and we get aliens

1594
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,280
and ghosts which both kind of fit that

1595
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:22,559
description of the phenomenon so I mean

1596
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,160
while I do think people see uh anomalous

1597
01:01:29,630 --> 01:01:28,319
or even novel things in this guy like I

1598
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:29,640
I do believe happened in the Lake

1599
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:32,400
Michigan case that I'm researching

1600
01:01:37,789 --> 01:01:35,359
um I think that people kind of project

1601
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:37,799
onto that they project themselves or

1602
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:40,020
they project to kind of a uh a very

1603
01:01:45,710 --> 01:01:43,280
human idea onto it that kind of um

1604
01:01:47,450 --> 01:01:45,720
represents that unknown kind of our fear

1605
01:01:49,370 --> 01:01:47,460
of the unknown

1606
01:01:51,950 --> 01:01:49,380
um we give it a we give it a face or an

1607
01:01:55,069 --> 01:01:51,960
image and it's constructed after us

1608
01:01:56,930 --> 01:01:55,079
that's my take on the phenomenon

1609
01:02:00,410 --> 01:01:56,940
I think it's um

1610
01:02:04,430 --> 01:02:00,420
the phenomenon is really a human filter

1611
01:02:07,130 --> 01:02:04,440
for um how events um

1612
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:07,140
we interpret them based on

1613
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,319
myriad psychological or cognitive

1614
01:02:15,170 --> 01:02:12,480
processes

1615
01:02:17,089 --> 01:02:15,180
um then then um we report them

1616
01:02:19,130 --> 01:02:17,099
then they can build up as well into a

1617
01:02:20,990 --> 01:02:19,140
narrative then that narrative can also

1618
01:02:23,569 --> 01:02:21,000
feed into other people's perceptions and

1619
01:02:26,030 --> 01:02:23,579
predispositions so you know we talked

1620
01:02:28,430 --> 01:02:26,040
about ufology being kind of um

1621
01:02:31,069 --> 01:02:28,440
Echo chamber I think that the so-called

1622
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:31,079
phenomenon is also an echo chamber and

1623
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,760
that's society culture more generally is

1624
01:02:36,589 --> 01:02:34,319
a larger Echo chamber so you've got like

1625
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,599
these nestings of echo Chambers like

1626
01:02:39,589 --> 01:02:38,400
those Russian dolls

1627
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,599
um

1628
01:02:42,770 --> 01:02:41,760
I think that's primarily what it is but

1629
01:02:44,750 --> 01:02:42,780
um that's not to say that there couldn't

1630
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:44,760
be some

1631
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:47,700
um as yet unexplained for example what

1632
01:02:53,690 --> 01:02:49,920
Campbell's looked at um atmospheric

1633
01:02:56,030 --> 01:02:53,700
phenomena plasma Etc which could be

1634
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,040
um interacting with human nervous

1635
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,440
systems in some way especially like um

1636
01:03:02,930 --> 01:03:00,240
the things I find most interesting are

1637
01:03:06,349 --> 01:03:02,940
not the UFO reports but the close

1638
01:03:08,930 --> 01:03:06,359
encounter reports and abduction reports

1639
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:08,940
so that's more difficult to explain I

1640
01:03:13,910 --> 01:03:11,400
mean you can do it with um hypnopic or

1641
01:03:14,690 --> 01:03:13,920
hypnagogical hallucinations

1642
01:03:17,230 --> 01:03:14,700
um

1643
01:03:20,690 --> 01:03:17,240
extreme stress episodes

1644
01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:20,700
drugs things like that but I don't think

1645
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,260
that's an entire explanation I think

1646
01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:24,480
that there's still something genuinely

1647
01:03:27,950 --> 01:03:25,859
unknown but it's not anything

1648
01:03:28,910 --> 01:03:27,960
Supernatural it's still within the

1649
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,920
Realms of

1650
01:03:32,809 --> 01:03:30,480
what's going on in the brain and body

1651
01:03:35,150 --> 01:03:32,819
but it's still

1652
01:03:37,849 --> 01:03:35,160
uh that's still an active area which I

1653
01:03:40,010 --> 01:03:37,859
think is probably the most interesting

1654
01:03:41,890 --> 01:03:40,020
thing that we can look at right now

1655
01:03:51,950 --> 01:03:41,900
yeah

1656
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:52,789
um

1657
01:03:57,170 --> 01:03:54,960
yeah I am

1658
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:57,180
I I will not gas bag it and just say

1659
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,559
that

1660
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:00,240
um

1661
01:04:06,530 --> 01:04:04,559
I personally again feel it is completely

1662
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,540
inconsequential what actually causes

1663
01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:08,640
these kinds of things

1664
01:04:12,890 --> 01:04:09,480
um

1665
01:04:14,690 --> 01:04:12,900
I would be just as happy to find out

1666
01:04:15,710 --> 01:04:14,700
they're super happy I would be just too

1667
01:04:18,109 --> 01:04:15,720
satisfied to find out they're

1668
01:04:20,089 --> 01:04:18,119
Supernatural as they are chemical

1669
01:04:23,750 --> 01:04:20,099
imbalances or environmental factors or

1670
01:04:26,030 --> 01:04:23,760
Etc but um I'm very interested

1671
01:04:28,730 --> 01:04:26,040
um I do think people experience strange

1672
01:04:31,609 --> 01:04:28,740
and unusual events that point to a

1673
01:04:33,049 --> 01:04:31,619
reality or a substrate of reality that

1674
01:04:35,569 --> 01:04:33,059
is

1675
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,579
somewhat different than the one that we

1676
01:04:41,210 --> 01:04:37,920
experience in a material sense and from

1677
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:41,220
an information processing sense

1678
01:04:45,650 --> 01:04:43,440
and at this point I would also say that

1679
01:04:47,950 --> 01:04:45,660
my view on the subject is

1680
01:04:50,270 --> 01:04:47,960
almost entirely divorced from

1681
01:04:52,609 --> 01:04:50,280
extraterrestrial hypotheses in any

1682
01:04:55,130 --> 01:04:52,619
meaningful sense like like that in many

1683
01:04:56,829 --> 01:04:55,140
respects that feels very passe it feels

1684
01:04:59,870 --> 01:04:56,839
almost like believing that if you leave

1685
01:05:02,270 --> 01:04:59,880
barley in a wet rag Out Below a full

1686
01:05:04,250 --> 01:05:02,280
moon you're gonna get I don't know a

1687
01:05:06,530 --> 01:05:04,260
chipmunk or something like this like it

1688
01:05:09,829 --> 01:05:06,540
just feels like this very kind of passe

1689
01:05:12,349 --> 01:05:09,839
idea and I don't put much Credence in it

1690
01:05:13,970 --> 01:05:12,359
at all but um that's more or less where

1691
01:05:16,010 --> 01:05:13,980
I sit I

1692
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:16,020
I'm just mostly interested in the human

1693
01:05:20,990 --> 01:05:18,480
side of this how people understand and

1694
01:05:23,089 --> 01:05:21,000
contextualize their experiences and what

1695
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:23,099
it says just about the limitations of

1696
01:05:27,650 --> 01:05:24,960
our own knowledge

1697
01:05:29,210 --> 01:05:27,660
raqqa is actually asking where they can

1698
01:05:30,650 --> 01:05:29,220
get more information on what Campbell is

1699
01:05:32,829 --> 01:05:30,660
talking about Campbell's blog is a

1700
01:05:35,150 --> 01:05:32,839
really good resource for that UAP

1701
01:05:38,329 --> 01:05:35,160
study.com there we go yeah that's

1702
01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:38,339
right.com check that site out it's it's

1703
01:05:45,130 --> 01:05:40,920
written like a book it's it's a really

1704
01:05:49,370 --> 01:05:47,990
uh who else is asking questions

1705
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:49,380
yeah

1706
01:05:54,829 --> 01:05:51,359
um let me see

1707
01:05:59,450 --> 01:05:57,049
would you rather in your lifetime have a

1708
01:06:01,309 --> 01:05:59,460
theory of everything a physics proven to

1709
01:06:03,289 --> 01:06:01,319
be true so for instance something like

1710
01:06:04,730 --> 01:06:03,299
string theory meaning we finally

1711
01:06:07,069 --> 01:06:04,740
understood reality at the most

1712
01:06:09,049 --> 01:06:07,079
fundamental level or have the aliens

1713
01:06:11,930 --> 01:06:09,059
land the door opens we make first

1714
01:06:13,789 --> 01:06:11,940
Contact oh the ladder yeah that's a good

1715
01:06:15,410 --> 01:06:13,799
question though it is a really good

1716
01:06:18,170 --> 01:06:15,420
question yeah

1717
01:06:19,870 --> 01:06:18,180
the latter aliens Nick dude this is

1718
01:06:22,970 --> 01:06:19,880
gonna be a role reversal

1719
01:06:25,370 --> 01:06:22,980
wouldn't that be cool

1720
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:25,380
that would be cool

1721
01:06:29,390 --> 01:06:27,660
and and that still leaves room for a lot

1722
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:29,400
more mystery right

1723
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:32,700
that's true that still allows for a uh

1724
01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:34,079
full understanding of the universe

1725
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:36,240
that's a good point yeah that's my

1726
01:06:38,510 --> 01:06:37,140
choice

1727
01:06:40,250 --> 01:06:38,520
so the

1728
01:06:41,930 --> 01:06:40,260
Theory of Everything therefore would not

1729
01:06:43,069 --> 01:06:41,940
really be a Theory of Everything

1730
01:06:44,930 --> 01:06:43,079
because it still leaves something

1731
01:06:46,089 --> 01:06:44,940
unexplained that you would rather

1732
01:06:50,349 --> 01:06:46,099
explain

1733
01:06:53,450 --> 01:06:50,359
nice okay it was a trick very nice

1734
01:06:56,210 --> 01:06:53,460
clever yeah I would uh say Theory of

1735
01:06:58,730 --> 01:06:56,220
Everything uh that's like I spent so

1736
01:07:00,829 --> 01:06:58,740
much time reading physics like Frontier

1737
01:07:02,690 --> 01:07:00,839
physics stuff without understanding most

1738
01:07:05,990 --> 01:07:02,700
of it like that's what I am so intent on

1739
01:07:09,049 --> 01:07:06,000
I do understand that answer

1740
01:07:10,190 --> 01:07:09,059
um uh Leah don't be surprised I mean

1741
01:07:15,049 --> 01:07:10,200
like the

1742
01:07:18,950 --> 01:07:15,059
X-Files storyline I want that to be true

1743
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:21,109
so that's actually a good point of uh or

1744
01:07:24,770 --> 01:07:22,799
actually Leah maybe you could uh answer

1745
01:07:26,809 --> 01:07:24,780
the question and then I just thought a

1746
01:07:28,370 --> 01:07:26,819
little funny one so dude I want to know

1747
01:07:30,109 --> 01:07:28,380
I want to know what's at the substrate

1748
01:07:32,210 --> 01:07:30,119
of reality are you kidding me

1749
01:07:33,529 --> 01:07:32,220
okay that's like I don't care about I

1750
01:07:35,569 --> 01:07:33,539
don't I don't really care about aliens

1751
01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:35,579
sorry guys it would be cool I'm sure

1752
01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:37,020
they're out there I don't know to me it

1753
01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:42,890
the yearning for aliens in a way is a

1754
01:07:46,609 --> 01:07:44,700
desire for something like a theory of

1755
01:07:49,250 --> 01:07:46,619
everything because like the aliens are

1756
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,260
meant to be super it's terrible they can

1757
01:07:53,150 --> 01:07:51,839
bring us the information yeah right like

1758
01:07:55,069 --> 01:07:53,160
breakthrough in physics or something

1759
01:07:58,609 --> 01:07:55,079
maybe they know the answer to like the

1760
01:08:01,309 --> 01:07:58,619
ultimate nature of fundamental reality

1761
01:08:02,450 --> 01:08:01,319
um if there is such a level but I mean

1762
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:02,460
um

1763
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:04,559
yeah maybe like if you met the aliens

1764
01:08:08,690 --> 01:08:06,420
they could tell you

1765
01:08:10,849 --> 01:08:08,700
um the answer and then he'll be like you

1766
01:08:13,250 --> 01:08:10,859
know that question um

1767
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:13,260
not that question but that scenario

1768
01:08:18,829 --> 01:08:15,359
where what would you wish for there was

1769
01:08:23,050 --> 01:08:18,839
a a genie like you would wish for a

1770
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:23,060
million wishes right at least yeah

1771
01:08:35,870 --> 01:08:32,689
that's funny uh so when I was um it's

1772
01:08:37,249 --> 01:08:35,880
like maybe the aliens would know that

1773
01:08:41,090 --> 01:08:37,259
but they wouldn't they maybe wouldn't

1774
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:41,100
tell us and um I I assume or I presume

1775
01:08:45,950 --> 01:08:42,960
that aliens are similar to us and I know

1776
01:08:48,050 --> 01:08:45,960
that I don't have uh allies I don't

1777
01:08:50,450 --> 01:08:48,060
think on this panel on that subject but

1778
01:08:52,370 --> 01:08:50,460
my intuition would be like I've read

1779
01:08:54,769 --> 01:08:52,380
like The Diary of Jacques Cartier and

1780
01:08:57,530 --> 01:08:54,779
it's like you know he sails in and he

1781
01:09:00,050 --> 01:08:57,540
just like lies to everyone he steals the

1782
01:09:02,150 --> 01:09:00,060
king of hosholaga which is now Montreal

1783
01:09:03,709 --> 01:09:02,160
he takes him back to France like he does

1784
01:09:05,450 --> 01:09:03,719
everything terrible he doesn't tell them

1785
01:09:07,610 --> 01:09:05,460
anything he lies to them he says that

1786
01:09:09,470 --> 01:09:07,620
the canons are from the gods and

1787
01:09:10,729 --> 01:09:09,480
therefore you know I I've received

1788
01:09:12,829 --> 01:09:10,739
something like that if they're coming

1789
01:09:14,570 --> 01:09:12,839
here uh there would be a motivation

1790
01:09:16,370 --> 01:09:14,580
they'd be coming in for a reason and I

1791
01:09:17,870 --> 01:09:16,380
wouldn't expect that to be good and this

1792
01:09:20,030 --> 01:09:17,880
sort of spiraled what I was going to ask

1793
01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:20,040
because to me

1794
01:09:26,269 --> 01:09:23,640
the Fermi pop Paradox is the opposite of

1795
01:09:28,249 --> 01:09:26,279
a lot of Skeptics my personal opinion is

1796
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:28,259
that it makes absolutely zero sense to

1797
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:30,960
me uh statistically that there aren't

1798
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:32,940
aliens already here they haven't already

1799
01:09:36,829 --> 01:09:35,040
colonized this that's my subjective uh

1800
01:09:38,510 --> 01:09:36,839
interpretation of like the number of

1801
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,520
stars in the Milky Way the number of uh

1802
01:09:42,110 --> 01:09:40,080
potentially habitable plane is all that

1803
01:09:45,229 --> 01:09:42,120
and we got into why maybe life is rare

1804
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,239
than uh we apparently apparently it is

1805
01:09:49,729 --> 01:09:47,279
on the previous episode with uh Louise

1806
01:09:51,530 --> 01:09:49,739
but um I would love to just sort of um

1807
01:09:53,689 --> 01:09:51,540
hear each of you quickly just sort of uh

1808
01:09:56,090 --> 01:09:53,699
do you think it would be extraordinarily

1809
01:09:57,890 --> 01:09:56,100
common or rare for an alien to arrive

1810
01:09:59,570 --> 01:09:57,900
here statistically

1811
01:10:00,890 --> 01:09:59,580
um Louise could you start and then we'll

1812
01:10:01,790 --> 01:10:00,900
build Nick and Emily and then we can do

1813
01:10:02,810 --> 01:10:01,800
one

1814
01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:02,820
sure

1815
01:10:06,530 --> 01:10:04,920
um probably rare because there could be

1816
01:10:09,470 --> 01:10:06,540
um fundamental limitations on

1817
01:10:11,390 --> 01:10:09,480
Interstellar travel

1818
01:10:13,790 --> 01:10:11,400
um even even under the most uh

1819
01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:13,800
optimistic estimates

1820
01:10:18,470 --> 01:10:16,260
so you know people talk about the

1821
01:10:20,149 --> 01:10:18,480
possibility of sending Stella probes to

1822
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:20,159
like Alpha Centauri

1823
01:10:24,169 --> 01:10:22,080
um within the human lifetime

1824
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:24,179
which is probably possible

1825
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:25,920
um given some further advances in

1826
01:10:29,930 --> 01:10:28,380
propulsion but that doesn't mean that

1827
01:10:32,330 --> 01:10:29,940
sending

1828
01:10:35,149 --> 01:10:32,340
um people here would be easy

1829
01:10:37,610 --> 01:10:35,159
like the equivalent of people and um

1830
01:10:39,470 --> 01:10:37,620
that's what the UFO

1831
01:10:40,970 --> 01:10:39,480
idea requires is that they're coming

1832
01:10:42,530 --> 01:10:40,980
here frequently

1833
01:10:44,750 --> 01:10:42,540
and

1834
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:44,760
I just don't see that the other thing is

1835
01:10:47,810 --> 01:10:46,320
like the UFOs

1836
01:10:50,750 --> 01:10:47,820
um you know what they're purported to be

1837
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:50,760
capable of is like instantaneous

1838
01:10:54,970 --> 01:10:53,280
Maneuvers and so on and um probably

1839
01:10:57,290 --> 01:10:54,980
using some sort of a

1840
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:57,300
exotic propulsion

1841
01:11:01,850 --> 01:10:59,040
um gravity manipulating propulsion

1842
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:01,860
system like wouldn't that just

1843
01:11:10,910 --> 01:11:08,810
which people just don't they just sort

1844
01:11:12,890 --> 01:11:10,920
of chalk it up to or maybe the aliens

1845
01:11:14,570 --> 01:11:12,900
are just super Advanced and they found

1846
01:11:16,490 --> 01:11:14,580
some principle of physics that we don't

1847
01:11:18,530 --> 01:11:16,500
know about I mean there's no guarantee

1848
01:11:20,270 --> 01:11:18,540
of that it just doesn't seem very likely

1849
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:20,280
to me so I would I would fall in the

1850
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:22,080
camp of saying that it's probably not

1851
01:11:28,010 --> 01:11:24,239
likely that they come in here even if

1852
01:11:29,810 --> 01:11:28,020
they're common in the universe

1853
01:11:31,729 --> 01:11:29,820
repeat the question

1854
01:11:33,530 --> 01:11:31,739
how would you think it's statistically

1855
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:33,540
uh very likely or very unlikely or

1856
01:11:35,930 --> 01:11:34,800
somewhere in between that aliens would

1857
01:11:39,169 --> 01:11:35,940
actually come here

1858
01:11:40,669 --> 01:11:39,179
would come here yes uh we'll have well

1859
01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:40,679
both I guess like uh do you think that

1860
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:41,820
it should have already happened

1861
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:44,699
statistically that's sort of the idea I

1862
01:11:49,370 --> 01:11:47,520
think that uh in in the in the big

1863
01:11:51,649 --> 01:11:49,380
timeline we haven't been around for very

1864
01:11:53,450 --> 01:11:51,659
long so they have a short window

1865
01:11:55,850 --> 01:11:53,460
um and I also like to think that like

1866
01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:55,860
alien life might be so different from us

1867
01:12:00,350 --> 01:11:57,780
we might not be even able to distinguish

1868
01:12:02,870 --> 01:12:00,360
it I I like um I said to this somebody

1869
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:02,880
uh the other day I I think about the

1870
01:12:07,310 --> 01:12:05,520
difference between me and a tree and I

1871
01:12:10,490 --> 01:12:07,320
like to I would imagine that alien life

1872
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:10,500
might even be more distinct and more

1873
01:12:15,050 --> 01:12:12,900
like even even more different you know

1874
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:15,060
what I mean so like would they be

1875
01:12:19,250 --> 01:12:17,520
compelled to come here or to colonize or

1876
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,260
to move out or is that are we just

1877
01:12:25,310 --> 01:12:21,600
projecting our Humanity again onto onto

1878
01:12:27,050 --> 01:12:25,320
things so I don't know in there's also

1879
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:27,060
um in the James Webb Telescope photos

1880
01:12:30,590 --> 01:12:28,320
the first ones that started coming back

1881
01:12:33,410 --> 01:12:30,600
made me think of this that was you know

1882
01:12:35,090 --> 01:12:33,420
a large expanse but you know through

1883
01:12:39,169 --> 01:12:35,100
through a grain of sand at arm's length

1884
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:39,179
right the space is so big like would

1885
01:12:43,070 --> 01:12:41,040
they even find us you know what I mean

1886
01:12:45,530 --> 01:12:43,080
is that looking for a particular grain

1887
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:45,540
of sand on the beach

1888
01:12:49,490 --> 01:12:48,000
um so no I don't I don't think it's very

1889
01:12:52,130 --> 01:12:49,500
likely

1890
01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:52,140
or at least not in our lifetimes or the

1891
01:12:55,550 --> 01:12:54,060
lifetime of humanity however long that

1892
01:12:58,010 --> 01:12:55,560
might last like I said I think that's a

1893
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:58,020
very short window so I'm not sure we've

1894
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:01,679
got what another 80 years left yeah

1895
01:13:06,830 --> 01:13:04,800
that's that's optimistic

1896
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:06,840
no I don't know

1897
01:13:11,570 --> 01:13:08,640
drawing on um

1898
01:13:14,750 --> 01:13:11,580
a Nick's response yeah like my view of

1899
01:13:17,209 --> 01:13:14,760
this on literal beings coming from

1900
01:13:20,090 --> 01:13:17,219
another planet and getting to Earth

1901
01:13:23,209 --> 01:13:20,100
is we're not just contending with the

1902
01:13:25,370 --> 01:13:23,219
spatial enormity of everything but we

1903
01:13:28,030 --> 01:13:25,380
are also contending with this other

1904
01:13:30,890 --> 01:13:28,040
dimension of time that is also

1905
01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:30,900
extraordinarily uh

1906
01:13:35,570 --> 01:13:32,880
very very long

1907
01:13:39,050 --> 01:13:35,580
um to me it feels like the two things

1908
01:13:40,850 --> 01:13:39,060
like two things feel intuitively true to

1909
01:13:44,209 --> 01:13:40,860
me one is that there's almost certainly

1910
01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,219
life elsewhere in the universe and also

1911
01:13:48,169 --> 01:13:46,080
that it is extremely statistically

1912
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:48,179
improbable that it's intersected with

1913
01:13:53,450 --> 01:13:51,120
ours in any meaningful sense now I will

1914
01:14:00,050 --> 01:13:57,430
um I do find ideas around

1915
01:14:01,790 --> 01:14:00,060
interdimensional or hyperdimensional or

1916
01:14:02,709 --> 01:14:01,800
whatever

1917
01:14:04,610 --> 01:14:02,719
um

1918
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:04,620
beings

1919
01:14:11,390 --> 01:14:08,640
to be much more compelling

1920
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:11,400
um I'm reading that book in the

1921
01:14:16,010 --> 01:14:13,199
Psychedelic book club alien information

1922
01:14:20,090 --> 01:14:16,020
Theory by Andrew Gallimore and he

1923
01:14:23,870 --> 01:14:20,100
basically stipulates that the DMT

1924
01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:26,870
puts your brain in a space that it only

1925
01:14:32,149 --> 01:14:29,100
is World building based on intrinsic

1926
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:32,159
information and that in turn so like no

1927
01:14:35,570 --> 01:14:33,840
external information from the

1928
01:14:38,990 --> 01:14:35,580
phenomenological world it's all what's

1929
01:14:40,550 --> 01:14:39,000
going on in our minds and that

1930
01:14:43,850 --> 01:14:40,560
or it's all information that's being

1931
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:43,860
generated internally and that in turn

1932
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:46,080
this

1933
01:14:54,649 --> 01:14:46,800
um

1934
01:14:57,770 --> 01:14:54,659
entities or intelligences or whatever

1935
01:15:00,110 --> 01:14:57,780
else that are not of this particular

1936
01:15:04,430 --> 01:15:00,120
material reality like that to me feels

1937
01:15:09,130 --> 01:15:06,770
um approachable idea then

1938
01:15:11,450 --> 01:15:09,140
you know someone from Zeta reticuli

1939
01:15:13,430 --> 01:15:11,460
Landing their Flying Saucer on the White

1940
01:15:15,229 --> 01:15:13,440
House lawn

1941
01:15:17,810 --> 01:15:15,239
sure

1942
01:15:19,790 --> 01:15:17,820
quite reasonable

1943
01:15:22,850 --> 01:15:19,800
could an AI

1944
01:15:24,890 --> 01:15:22,860
um have a psychedelic experiences

1945
01:15:26,750 --> 01:15:24,900
well that's interesting some of that AI

1946
01:15:29,990 --> 01:15:26,760
art that you're generating suggests yes

1947
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:32,510
yeah that's yeah I was thinking about

1948
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:34,860
that actually when I was making some of

1949
01:15:39,770 --> 01:15:36,960
that art because um I was thinking about

1950
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:39,780
the could it be possible to draw

1951
01:15:44,750 --> 01:15:42,000
insights about how dreams are produced

1952
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:44,760
from Ai and like therefore the

1953
01:15:49,669 --> 01:15:47,520
underlying uh latent meanings of that in

1954
01:15:51,530 --> 01:15:49,679
terms like a meta language I have

1955
01:15:52,910 --> 01:15:51,540
something to say I'm so excited to say

1956
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:52,920
this I was just reading a paper

1957
01:15:59,149 --> 01:15:55,140
basically about

1958
01:16:01,729 --> 01:15:59,159
how good how skillful We are Becoming at

1959
01:16:04,750 --> 01:16:01,739
basically tracking the human mind in the

1960
01:16:07,610 --> 01:16:04,760
dream state and then replicating images

1961
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:07,620
uh visually based on what is happening

1962
01:16:11,570 --> 01:16:09,840
in the in the in the dream state so it's

1963
01:16:13,790 --> 01:16:11,580
not extremely detailed

1964
01:16:15,649 --> 01:16:13,800
but it would be like if you dream that

1965
01:16:17,930 --> 01:16:15,659
there's a red cardinal

1966
01:16:20,090 --> 01:16:17,940
sitting on a fence

1967
01:16:22,130 --> 01:16:20,100
it will pick up the brown of the fence

1968
01:16:25,070 --> 01:16:22,140
the red kind of Splash of the Cardinal

1969
01:16:26,950 --> 01:16:25,080
and then the green of the tree behind it

1970
01:16:29,870 --> 01:16:26,960
um

1971
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:29,880
so much of like the original photographs

1972
01:16:34,130 --> 01:16:32,640
like the photograph of like a pigeon on

1973
01:16:35,870 --> 01:16:34,140
a fence or whatever was the first photo

1974
01:16:37,729 --> 01:16:35,880
it's like exactly like what you're

1975
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:37,739
describing that's except black and white

1976
01:16:42,350 --> 01:16:41,520
obviously but that's really interesting

1977
01:16:45,169 --> 01:16:42,360
um

1978
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,179
tripping yeah that's going to be the

1979
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:47,520
real threat the when the idea gets their

1980
01:16:56,930 --> 01:16:55,310
um let me see we have three questions

1981
01:16:58,850 --> 01:16:56,940
here we have a question from the earth

1982
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:58,860
How likely do you think it is that some

1983
01:17:03,709 --> 01:17:00,960
Uncharted external physical factors

1984
01:17:06,110 --> 01:17:03,719
directly result in spontaneous spiritual

1985
01:17:08,570 --> 01:17:06,120
or uncanny experiences so things like

1986
01:17:11,149 --> 01:17:08,580
carbon monoxide gas traumatic accidents

1987
01:17:13,669 --> 01:17:11,159
ergot Etc

1988
01:17:15,649 --> 01:17:13,679
maybe this this actually probably ties

1989
01:17:17,209 --> 01:17:15,659
into Skinwalker Ranch incidentally

1990
01:17:20,330 --> 01:17:17,219
because isn't there

1991
01:17:22,090 --> 01:17:20,340
the the Uinta Basin is at a site where

1992
01:17:25,490 --> 01:17:22,100
like there's a lot of methane leakage

1993
01:17:27,530 --> 01:17:25,500
and something I think even long

1994
01:17:29,149 --> 01:17:27,540
um positive that maybe one of the

1995
01:17:31,490 --> 01:17:29,159
reasons people have experiences there is

1996
01:17:34,689 --> 01:17:31,500
because of methane

1997
01:17:37,669 --> 01:17:34,699
so anyway that would be interesting yeah

1998
01:17:39,530 --> 01:17:37,679
uh it wasn't wasn't ergot uh kind of an

1999
01:17:41,450 --> 01:17:39,540
offered explanation for some of what was

2000
01:17:44,209 --> 01:17:41,460
going on in uh the Salem Witch Trials

2001
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:44,219
Leah didn't you mention that before uh

2002
01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:47,280
the dancing Mania of the 16th century is

2003
01:17:52,970 --> 01:17:50,640
largely attributed to ergot um it's

2004
01:17:56,209 --> 01:17:52,980
basically similar to LSD it grows on

2005
01:17:58,850 --> 01:17:56,219
grain it definitely wasn't the music

2006
01:18:02,209 --> 01:17:58,860
it definitely was not the music

2007
01:18:03,110 --> 01:18:02,219
banging hits of the uh medieval period

2008
01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:03,120
yeah

2009
01:18:06,530 --> 01:18:04,800
um I think there's a variety of ways

2010
01:18:09,169 --> 01:18:06,540
that this could be interpreted like uh

2011
01:18:12,590 --> 01:18:09,179
it's bringing to mind uh something from

2012
01:18:14,030 --> 01:18:12,600
one of the Icelandic sagas the uh Saga

2013
01:18:17,330 --> 01:18:14,040
the greenlanders

2014
01:18:19,850 --> 01:18:17,340
there's a segment of it where

2015
01:18:23,570 --> 01:18:19,860
um they become sick in Winter and

2016
01:18:25,010 --> 01:18:23,580
there's a sequence of uh people waking

2017
01:18:28,370 --> 01:18:25,020
from the dead communicating with the

2018
01:18:30,350 --> 01:18:28,380
dead having visions all of these things

2019
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:30,360
um is so another way of interpreting it

2020
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,159
is some some kind of sepsis food

2021
01:18:37,130 --> 01:18:34,800
poisoning in a modern interpretation but

2022
01:18:39,709 --> 01:18:37,140
that's an external factor and they

2023
01:18:41,689 --> 01:18:39,719
detail you know extensively these

2024
01:18:44,810 --> 01:18:41,699
experiences that we would exclusively

2025
01:18:46,970 --> 01:18:44,820
identify as a spiritual to some extent

2026
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,980
so that they have many things like that

2027
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,719
are there out there

2028
01:18:53,209 --> 01:18:50,400
like so many from so many different

2029
01:18:54,709 --> 01:18:53,219
angles right not not just out there then

2030
01:18:57,169 --> 01:18:54,719
but out there now

2031
01:18:58,910 --> 01:18:57,179
um there's this very famous Reddit

2032
01:19:01,669 --> 01:18:58,920
thread where somebody thought someone

2033
01:19:03,290 --> 01:19:01,679
was leaving notes for themselves oh yeah

2034
01:19:06,050 --> 01:19:03,300
Hartman and it turned out that they just

2035
01:19:09,169 --> 01:19:06,060
had a carbon monoxide leak and they were

2036
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:09,179
leaving themselves notes and I just

2037
01:19:13,430 --> 01:19:11,760
didn't remember had no idea what's that

2038
01:19:16,689 --> 01:19:13,440
movie with the guy that tattoos all that

2039
01:19:21,550 --> 01:19:16,699
stuff on it okay

2040
01:19:27,709 --> 01:19:24,169
the role of abuse

2041
01:19:29,630 --> 01:19:27,719
and these sorts of experiences and the

2042
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:29,640
Whitley strieber has also alluded to

2043
01:19:35,689 --> 01:19:31,920
sexual abuse

2044
01:19:38,450 --> 01:19:35,699
right as a possible trauma yeah

2045
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:38,460
yeah trauma and screen screen memories

2046
01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:40,440
are very much a thing

2047
01:19:45,770 --> 01:19:42,960
and what about UFO experiences during

2048
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:45,780
wartime there's a not insignificant

2049
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:48,960
number uh there's a very uh Infamous

2050
01:19:54,110 --> 01:19:50,940
incident for in Vietnam called the

2051
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:54,120
chorwan incident where uh dozens of GIS

2052
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:56,159
were taking out of combat with what

2053
01:20:02,330 --> 01:19:58,560
appeared to be radiation sickness after

2054
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:02,340
uh reporting uh a well we call it a UFO

2055
01:20:05,810 --> 01:20:03,239
they said it looked like a

2056
01:20:08,149 --> 01:20:05,820
Jack-o-Lantern uh walking down the

2057
01:20:09,709 --> 01:20:08,159
Hillside and it was entering the Air

2058
01:20:11,450 --> 01:20:09,719
Bursts of the artillery burst

2059
01:20:13,790 --> 01:20:11,460
instantaneously so moving towards them

2060
01:20:15,709 --> 01:20:13,800
is their report and then they were

2061
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:15,719
firing on the object and it allegedly

2062
01:20:18,890 --> 01:20:17,040
approached them and then they suffered

2063
01:20:20,689 --> 01:20:18,900
extensive sickness and it's like

2064
01:20:23,330 --> 01:20:20,699
interesting that could be a real

2065
01:20:25,610 --> 01:20:23,340
physical experience or it's a collective

2066
01:20:28,130 --> 01:20:25,620
experience from like this uh extremely

2067
01:20:31,550 --> 01:20:28,140
traumatic event or maybe it's a blending

2068
01:20:33,530 --> 01:20:31,560
of both and then and then how profound

2069
01:20:36,530 --> 01:20:33,540
would that be when you're in this state

2070
01:20:38,110 --> 01:20:36,540
and there's an anomalous event occurring

2071
01:20:42,050 --> 01:20:38,120
um

2072
01:20:44,810 --> 01:20:42,060
drug use as well a lot of Vietnam were

2073
01:20:46,970 --> 01:20:44,820
you know they were smoking heroin or

2074
01:20:49,490 --> 01:20:46,980
whatever into hallucinogens as well yes

2075
01:20:52,030 --> 01:20:49,500
that's true like taking acid in combat

2076
01:20:54,169 --> 01:20:52,040
yeah you're right

2077
01:20:57,350 --> 01:20:54,179
it's like it's like the Viking

2078
01:20:59,630 --> 01:20:57,360
Berserkers right who legendary the myth

2079
01:21:02,149 --> 01:20:59,640
is always that they ingested Amanita

2080
01:21:03,530 --> 01:21:02,159
which is a very powerful dissociative

2081
01:21:05,149 --> 01:21:03,540
mushroom

2082
01:21:08,570 --> 01:21:05,159
um I don't know it's sort it's sort of

2083
01:21:10,910 --> 01:21:08,580
like the goth brother of psilocybin

2084
01:21:13,010 --> 01:21:10,920
um some soldiers also report that during

2085
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:13,020
combat they sort of get high from the

2086
01:21:17,450 --> 01:21:16,080
thrill of like doing the enemy or stuff

2087
01:21:19,370 --> 01:21:17,460
like that um

2088
01:21:21,770 --> 01:21:19,380
especially like when they win the battle

2089
01:21:23,470 --> 01:21:21,780
like afterwards they sort of coming down

2090
01:21:26,390 --> 01:21:23,480
from this high

2091
01:21:29,450 --> 01:21:26,400
I guess like that could also that's also

2092
01:21:31,510 --> 01:21:29,460
Pro it'd be interesting to study the

2093
01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:31,520
the effects of that although I wonder

2094
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:33,960
how would you do that um how would you

2095
01:21:38,689 --> 01:21:36,480
empirically study that um

2096
01:21:40,850 --> 01:21:38,699
yeah ethically anyway yeah that would be

2097
01:21:42,530 --> 01:21:40,860
a real challenge to induce trauma to

2098
01:21:45,169 --> 01:21:42,540
take a look yeah you have to be going

2099
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:45,179
back to the uh 1950s all those like the

2100
01:21:47,689 --> 01:21:46,560
Harlow experiments and all of that the

2101
01:21:49,669 --> 01:21:47,699
Milgram

2102
01:21:51,950 --> 01:21:49,679
really start messing with people ruining

2103
01:21:54,070 --> 01:21:51,960
their lives uh forever but you get some

2104
01:21:56,750 --> 01:21:54,080
valuable data

2105
01:21:59,510 --> 01:21:56,760
I mean we're also we're talking about

2106
01:22:03,229 --> 01:21:59,520
very distinct linear paths from an event

2107
01:22:05,689 --> 01:22:03,239
or chemical to an experience or an

2108
01:22:08,270 --> 01:22:05,699
expansive Consciousness but there's also

2109
01:22:10,550 --> 01:22:08,280
tons of stuff that happens that um is

2110
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:10,560
speculative or environmental that we

2111
01:22:15,169 --> 01:22:12,480
can't really make that linear like

2112
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:15,179
connection but I think does instigate

2113
01:22:19,729 --> 01:22:17,280
these things so exposure to like

2114
01:22:21,290 --> 01:22:19,739
infrasound or very strong magnetic

2115
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:21,300
fields

2116
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:32,229
that book by Mary Roach

2117
01:22:39,110 --> 01:22:35,280
like she talks a lot about the sort of

2118
01:22:41,270 --> 01:22:39,120
different environmental things that can

2119
01:22:45,530 --> 01:22:41,280
at least in theory kind of induce

2120
01:22:48,290 --> 01:22:45,540
sightings or paranormal experiences yeah

2121
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,300
that has been a popular Theory um I

2122
01:22:52,910 --> 01:22:50,159
don't know that it's uh replication has

2123
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:52,920
been attempted much on passenger's work

2124
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:54,719
um that's that's the uh the god helmet

2125
01:22:58,010 --> 01:22:56,400
stuff oh yeah I looked into that Nick

2126
01:22:59,630 --> 01:22:58,020
after you were asking me because I

2127
01:23:01,729 --> 01:22:59,640
referenced it because of the the UK

2128
01:23:03,709 --> 01:23:01,739
Ministry of Defense sites his work as a

2129
01:23:05,870 --> 01:23:03,719
explanation for some of these uh Alien

2130
01:23:07,490 --> 01:23:05,880
experiences and proximity to high uh you

2131
01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:07,500
know magnetic fields and you're you're

2132
01:23:11,570 --> 01:23:09,840
right uh the the you call you uh

2133
01:23:13,850 --> 01:23:11,580
identified this for me that there was an

2134
01:23:15,470 --> 01:23:13,860
original major study done by Swedish

2135
01:23:17,330 --> 01:23:15,480
researchers in the early 2000s I'm

2136
01:23:19,490 --> 01:23:17,340
trying to replicate it in nature and

2137
01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:19,500
that failed her singer claimed that they

2138
01:23:24,470 --> 01:23:21,600
didn't do uh use the appropriate energy

2139
01:23:26,510 --> 01:23:24,480
levels and stuff like that they're then

2140
01:23:28,729 --> 01:23:26,520
um more recently was a partial

2141
01:23:30,709 --> 01:23:28,739
replication of part of it that produced

2142
01:23:33,110 --> 01:23:30,719
a limited uh effect that is not

2143
01:23:35,090 --> 01:23:33,120
indicative of the original reports so

2144
01:23:39,169 --> 01:23:35,100
you're right it is less

2145
01:23:41,390 --> 01:23:39,179
um sturdy than even in 2000 uh in the

2146
01:23:42,950 --> 01:23:41,400
report people were saying because person

2147
01:23:44,750 --> 01:23:42,960
here had uh with a bunch of other

2148
01:23:46,970 --> 01:23:44,760
authors who published a variety of

2149
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,980
papers sort of in the journals

2150
01:23:50,689 --> 01:23:48,719
indicating this is likely and then they

2151
01:23:52,790 --> 01:23:50,699
just can get replication after that and

2152
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,800
that's sort of so tricky isn't it in

2153
01:23:57,110 --> 01:23:55,199
this type yeah I I mean I'm not I'm not

2154
01:23:59,149 --> 01:23:57,120
dismissing it completely or anything

2155
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:59,159
like it does need more

2156
01:24:03,530 --> 01:24:01,440
more work done on it you know

2157
01:24:05,510 --> 01:24:03,540
um I do know there was um something in

2158
01:24:08,270 --> 01:24:05,520
the similar vein oh gosh I wish I could

2159
01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:08,280
remember the source of this but a at a

2160
01:24:12,229 --> 01:24:09,900
college campus they erected a cell phone

2161
01:24:14,030 --> 01:24:12,239
tower that was inactive and they did a

2162
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:14,040
study on um like

2163
01:24:19,310 --> 01:24:17,520
EMF sensitivity it was pre-5g I'm

2164
01:24:23,870 --> 01:24:19,320
thinking it was probably 3G at the time

2165
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:23,880
but um they it was like it was basically

2166
01:24:29,209 --> 01:24:27,600
dialogue a lot of uh a lot of reports of

2167
01:24:30,410 --> 01:24:29,219
um you know a multitude of symptoms of

2168
01:24:33,950 --> 01:24:30,420
it so

2169
01:24:35,689 --> 01:24:33,960
there there's reason to doubt EMF uh

2170
01:24:38,510 --> 01:24:35,699
sensitivity in these things but I think

2171
01:24:40,430 --> 01:24:38,520
that um it's an Avenue Worth looking at

2172
01:24:42,950 --> 01:24:40,440
like uh like person just work and stuff

2173
01:24:43,970 --> 01:24:42,960
like that if people were to try that

2174
01:24:45,530 --> 01:24:43,980
some more maybe we could see some

2175
01:24:47,209 --> 01:24:45,540
replication I don't know I like I

2176
01:24:48,890 --> 01:24:47,219
haven't read I probably haven't even

2177
01:24:51,290 --> 01:24:48,900
read as much as you can but I didn't

2178
01:24:53,630 --> 01:24:51,300
know the kind of the gist that it hadn't

2179
01:24:56,630 --> 01:24:53,640
been replicated fully so drawing that

2180
01:24:58,250 --> 01:24:56,640
conclusion is kind of on Shaky Ground

2181
01:25:00,709 --> 01:24:58,260
yeah and there's a there are a couple

2182
01:25:04,669 --> 01:25:00,719
just the one other uh angle on this that

2183
01:25:06,770 --> 01:25:04,679
I find intriguing uh the recent studies

2184
01:25:09,470 --> 01:25:06,780
involving something called the third man

2185
01:25:11,090 --> 01:25:09,480
Factor this is very I found it

2186
01:25:14,390 --> 01:25:11,100
fascinating right that there's this

2187
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:14,400
we're fascinating this experience that

2188
01:25:19,250 --> 01:25:17,760
uh often Mountaineers report and this is

2189
01:25:22,010 --> 01:25:19,260
only why I'm bringing up in this context

2190
01:25:24,350 --> 01:25:22,020
because there's some possibility that

2191
01:25:26,810 --> 01:25:24,360
perhaps there's a um a

2192
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:26,820
potential geomagnetic element that's not

2193
01:25:32,590 --> 01:25:29,520
verifying what is verified is people

2194
01:25:35,450 --> 01:25:32,600
experience an effect of a temporary

2195
01:25:37,130 --> 01:25:35,460
hallucinatory state that is sudden onset

2196
01:25:39,590 --> 01:25:37,140
they experience another individual with

2197
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:39,600
them they it's prolonged there's an

2198
01:25:43,310 --> 01:25:42,000
interaction in extreme environments like

2199
01:25:45,350 --> 01:25:43,320
the mountaintops is where it's been

2200
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:45,360
studied and then it's not recurrent they

2201
01:25:49,850 --> 01:25:47,760
don't have it in other circumstances so

2202
01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:49,860
that's where like there's some really

2203
01:25:53,810 --> 01:25:52,260
neat quantitative stuff going on here

2204
01:25:56,450 --> 01:25:53,820
and

2205
01:25:58,669 --> 01:25:56,460
um I'm very I was starting to dig into

2206
01:26:00,890 --> 01:25:58,679
that a little bit and it's expanding

2207
01:26:02,570 --> 01:26:00,900
rapidly and it's like a relatively new

2208
01:26:04,250 --> 01:26:02,580
thing that they've identified so I

2209
01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:04,260
recommend any advise anybody who's

2210
01:26:09,709 --> 01:26:05,880
interested so maybe take a look at that

2211
01:26:13,129 --> 01:26:09,719
yeah it's um it's something that I um

2212
01:26:15,890 --> 01:26:13,139
this is whatever I'm on the title card

2213
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:15,900
um so I'm like super into Alpine skiing

2214
01:26:20,030 --> 01:26:18,420
and mountaineering and all that good

2215
01:26:21,590 --> 01:26:20,040
stuff and this is always something that

2216
01:26:23,270 --> 01:26:21,600
people talk about in dire circumstances

2217
01:26:25,850 --> 01:26:23,280
that the third man phenomena is

2218
01:26:27,229 --> 01:26:25,860
basically people who survive extenuating

2219
01:26:30,110 --> 01:26:27,239
circumstances in the back country

2220
01:26:32,930 --> 01:26:30,120
particularly in cold environments

2221
01:26:34,910 --> 01:26:32,940
um report this they basically see it uh

2222
01:26:38,930 --> 01:26:34,920
in a way almost as like a guardian angel

2223
01:26:40,910 --> 01:26:38,940
like like it is a third figure or EX uh

2224
01:26:43,970 --> 01:26:40,920
like other person accompanying them

2225
01:26:45,709 --> 01:26:43,980
while they navigate and emerge from what

2226
01:26:46,850 --> 01:26:45,719
would otherwise be a death sentence of a

2227
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,860
circumstance

2228
01:26:50,930 --> 01:26:49,440
now is this is this more than the kind

2229
01:26:53,330 --> 01:26:50,940
of like feeling or presence or a feeling

2230
01:26:55,550 --> 01:26:53,340
you're being watched this is like oh no

2231
01:26:57,229 --> 01:26:55,560
this is a very distinctive interactive

2232
01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:57,239
like you feel as if you are being

2233
01:27:01,310 --> 01:26:59,280
accompanied by another person who's

2234
01:27:02,450 --> 01:27:01,320
basically guiding you out of danger and

2235
01:27:04,669 --> 01:27:02,460
kind of that sounds really interesting

2236
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:04,679
yeah it's really fascinating yeah this

2237
01:27:08,270 --> 01:27:05,940
is news to me I haven't heard of this

2238
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:08,280
it's cool

2239
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:10,380
yeah and it's it's not verified exactly

2240
01:27:15,229 --> 01:27:13,199
what the mechanism is but um there is a

2241
01:27:19,070 --> 01:27:15,239
very intriguing element there that it's

2242
01:27:20,990 --> 01:27:19,080
like this extreme environment and maybe

2243
01:27:23,689 --> 01:27:21,000
there's some kind of mechanism like like

2244
01:27:25,129 --> 01:27:23,699
is it adaptive it's interesting it makes

2245
01:27:26,990 --> 01:27:25,139
me wonder if it's some form of

2246
01:27:29,629 --> 01:27:27,000
dissociation then and you're just

2247
01:27:31,490 --> 01:27:29,639
viewing yourself almost but you're so

2248
01:27:33,530 --> 01:27:31,500
dissociated you can't recognize it I

2249
01:27:35,330 --> 01:27:33,540
don't know that's cool I would read more

2250
01:27:37,790 --> 01:27:35,340
about that that sounds really cool yeah

2251
01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:37,800
I mean there's all sorts of like

2252
01:27:42,410 --> 01:27:39,960
there's all sorts of weird spooky [\h__\h]

2253
01:27:44,810 --> 01:27:42,420
like almost like sub processes that run

2254
01:27:48,410 --> 01:27:44,820
on your brain all the time that you know

2255
01:27:55,129 --> 01:27:51,050
what Neuroscience reveals about the

2256
01:27:58,850 --> 01:27:55,139
compulsion to believe fascinating yeah

2257
01:28:00,229 --> 01:27:58,860
um this guy's uh John C weighty um he's

2258
01:28:01,970 --> 01:28:00,239
got two books

2259
01:28:03,050 --> 01:28:01,980
this one is about

2260
01:28:05,330 --> 01:28:03,060
um

2261
01:28:07,729 --> 01:28:05,340
I think the evolutionary reasons why we

2262
01:28:09,709 --> 01:28:07,739
have certain predispositions and why we

2263
01:28:11,390 --> 01:28:09,719
believe in God and so on and then he's

2264
01:28:13,850 --> 01:28:11,400
got another book about the the actual

2265
01:28:15,290 --> 01:28:13,860
neurobiological mechanisms behind it

2266
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:15,300
which is looking at

2267
01:28:21,350 --> 01:28:17,120
mm-hmm

2268
01:28:23,450 --> 01:28:21,360
yeah I mean there's um

2269
01:28:25,250 --> 01:28:23,460
hypothermia does very strange things to

2270
01:28:26,870 --> 01:28:25,260
people's brains um and there's something

2271
01:28:28,970 --> 01:28:26,880
that happens basically it's called

2272
01:28:31,430 --> 01:28:28,980
terminal burrowing and again it's one of

2273
01:28:33,830 --> 01:28:31,440
these sort of like

2274
01:28:36,410 --> 01:28:33,840
root processes that run on your

2275
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:36,420
biological computer where

2276
01:28:40,729 --> 01:28:38,880
um as you're freezing to death you will

2277
01:28:42,169 --> 01:28:40,739
basically take off your clothes and

2278
01:28:44,090 --> 01:28:42,179
start digging in the snow and try to

2279
01:28:45,590 --> 01:28:44,100
crouch and sort of hide and this is

2280
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:45,600
something you're not cognitively you're

2281
01:28:48,709 --> 01:28:47,040
not like aware of that you're doing this

2282
01:28:51,770 --> 01:28:48,719
it just kind of happens it's sort of one

2283
01:28:53,570 --> 01:28:51,780
of the last stages the precursor to

2284
01:28:55,070 --> 01:28:53,580
death by hypothermia is terminal

2285
01:28:55,729 --> 01:28:55,080
burrowing

2286
01:28:58,430 --> 01:28:55,739
um

2287
01:29:00,649 --> 01:28:58,440
and it's basically just this like sub

2288
01:29:02,570 --> 01:29:00,659
process like it's your lizard brain

2289
01:29:06,350 --> 01:29:02,580
taking over the show

2290
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:06,360
um so yeah it's pretty far out

2291
01:29:11,450 --> 01:29:09,360
um so we have a question here

2292
01:29:13,370 --> 01:29:11,460
um sent to me on Twitter thoughts about

2293
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:13,380
Chris melon alluding to having more

2294
01:29:18,410 --> 01:29:15,360
advanced technology available but that

2295
01:29:20,149 --> 01:29:18,420
we're not using it to track UFOs

2296
01:29:21,890 --> 01:29:20,159
this is a side of stuff we must never

2297
01:29:25,189 --> 01:29:21,900
talk about so I'm very curious to hear

2298
01:29:27,050 --> 01:29:25,199
your thoughts on those uh well I'm not

2299
01:29:28,729 --> 01:29:27,060
sure what he's referring to in what

2300
01:29:30,830 --> 01:29:28,739
sense of us having more advanced

2301
01:29:34,930 --> 01:29:30,840
technology are you talking about like

2302
01:29:38,689 --> 01:29:34,940
um like our Navy and stuff like uh yeah

2303
01:29:40,970 --> 01:29:38,699
I'm sure no doubt that we do

2304
01:29:43,250 --> 01:29:40,980
um and they probably can't be public for

2305
01:29:45,410 --> 01:29:43,260
security reasons um if that's what he

2306
01:29:49,310 --> 01:29:45,420
means and it wouldn't surprise me that

2307
01:29:51,470 --> 01:29:49,320
we're not using it to track UFOs either

2308
01:29:52,910 --> 01:29:51,480
um but then again I'm uh I feel like I'm

2309
01:29:55,010 --> 01:29:52,920
missing a little context for this

2310
01:29:56,570 --> 01:29:55,020
question though so I feel hesitant to

2311
01:29:59,350 --> 01:29:56,580
completely speak on it

2312
01:30:02,590 --> 01:29:59,360
is that he revealing State secrets

2313
01:30:05,629 --> 01:30:02,600
his job to keep his mouth shut

2314
01:30:07,610 --> 01:30:05,639
that's a good that's a good point he's

2315
01:30:09,709 --> 01:30:07,620
speaking euphemistically here yeah I

2316
01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:09,719
mean you can say oh we have

2317
01:30:12,709 --> 01:30:11,520
Superior things that the public doesn't

2318
01:30:14,209 --> 01:30:12,719
know about and I wouldn't say that

2319
01:30:16,129 --> 01:30:14,219
that's a state secret

2320
01:30:19,729 --> 01:30:16,139
yeah it's not really a long photo draw

2321
01:30:22,250 --> 01:30:19,739
no or is is this kind of implying that

2322
01:30:23,649 --> 01:30:22,260
it's like ET technology that we're using

2323
01:30:27,470 --> 01:30:23,659
to

2324
01:30:28,910 --> 01:30:27,480
no I mean yeah I mean we know the UFO

2325
01:30:31,129 --> 01:30:28,920
crowd they would straight up say is an

2326
01:30:32,810 --> 01:30:31,139
alien that we have alien technology and

2327
01:30:34,189 --> 01:30:32,820
we're not using it

2328
01:30:36,590 --> 01:30:34,199
um you know one of the one of the things

2329
01:30:38,270 --> 01:30:36,600
I go back and forth on a lot is this

2330
01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:38,280
idea that

2331
01:30:43,430 --> 01:30:40,620
um so much technology and budget and

2332
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:43,440
Manpower is dedicated human power might

2333
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:44,460
be

2334
01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:45,360
um

2335
01:30:53,050 --> 01:30:49,920
is dedicated to this Specter of National

2336
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:53,060
Security uh in modern America

2337
01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:58,080
and I keep thinking to myself that given

2338
01:31:03,050 --> 01:31:00,840
just the momentous resource and

2339
01:31:04,729 --> 01:31:03,060
importance we place on the subject you'd

2340
01:31:06,830 --> 01:31:04,739
think that

2341
01:31:08,870 --> 01:31:06,840
if the government were actually truly

2342
01:31:11,270 --> 01:31:08,880
concerned about UFOs they would be

2343
01:31:13,070 --> 01:31:11,280
dedicating tons of resources to tracking

2344
01:31:15,290 --> 01:31:13,080
and identifying what people see but I

2345
01:31:18,110 --> 01:31:15,300
mean even just the fact that the fffa

2346
01:31:20,629 --> 01:31:18,120
has no sort of pre-ordained protocol or

2347
01:31:22,129 --> 01:31:20,639
citing training for Pilots to report

2348
01:31:24,050 --> 01:31:22,139
these things

2349
01:31:27,229 --> 01:31:24,060
um

2350
01:31:29,090 --> 01:31:27,239
to me uh I'm not saying I believe what

2351
01:31:31,070 --> 01:31:29,100
I'm about to say but I am saying one of

2352
01:31:32,750 --> 01:31:31,080
the things I consider is that these

2353
01:31:34,970 --> 01:31:32,760
really are

2354
01:31:38,209 --> 01:31:34,980
um just immaterial atmospheric phenomena

2355
01:31:41,570 --> 01:31:38,219
is discussed and identified repeatedly

2356
01:31:43,010 --> 01:31:41,580
in documentation and study and that they

2357
01:31:45,709 --> 01:31:43,020
don't really present any sort of

2358
01:31:48,350 --> 01:31:45,719
meaningful harm or danger and as a

2359
01:31:50,390 --> 01:31:48,360
result the National Security apparatus

2360
01:31:52,370 --> 01:31:50,400
or organ just kind of summarily

2361
01:31:54,169 --> 01:31:52,380
dismisses the concerns on the other hand

2362
01:31:55,610 --> 01:31:54,179
maybe this is just all a misdirection

2363
01:31:57,169 --> 01:31:55,620
and there's a whole lot of [\h__\h] in the

2364
01:31:58,310 --> 01:31:57,179
skies that's super dangerous to us and

2365
01:32:01,070 --> 01:31:58,320
they just don't want to freak us out

2366
01:32:02,350 --> 01:32:01,080
well maybe maybe these atmospheres sorry

2367
01:32:07,010 --> 01:32:02,360
Campbell

2368
01:32:09,830 --> 01:32:07,020
waiting for me to be a plasma guy

2369
01:32:11,750 --> 01:32:09,840
um no it's okay I'm very happy to hold

2370
01:32:13,610 --> 01:32:11,760
on Nick go ahead yeah please please

2371
01:32:16,490 --> 01:32:13,620
maybe maybe

2372
01:32:19,310 --> 01:32:16,500
um like us kind of naturally relating it

2373
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:19,320
to the cultural Narrative of UFOs like

2374
01:32:23,570 --> 01:32:22,080
the ET thing is what's keeping them from

2375
01:32:25,550 --> 01:32:23,580
taking it seriously because they're

2376
01:32:26,930 --> 01:32:25,560
thinking Little Green Men when they're

2377
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:26,940
you know there could be novel or

2378
01:32:31,729 --> 01:32:28,380
anomalous things happening in the sky

2379
01:32:33,169 --> 01:32:31,739
and we're all just equating it to eet's

2380
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:33,179
because that's what we've all grown up

2381
01:32:36,110 --> 01:32:34,800
with you know what I mean so they're

2382
01:32:37,790 --> 01:32:36,120
kind of just

2383
01:32:39,050 --> 01:32:37,800
passing it off and not taking it

2384
01:32:43,070 --> 01:32:39,060
seriously while things could be

2385
01:32:47,030 --> 01:32:43,080
happening maybe yes this is okay this is

2386
01:32:50,209 --> 01:32:47,040
actually the primary uh attack route I

2387
01:32:52,610 --> 01:32:50,219
took La in uh fall 2021 when I was

2388
01:32:55,310 --> 01:32:52,620
trying to get people to look at these uh

2389
01:32:57,169 --> 01:32:55,320
documents in that UK Ministry of Defense

2390
01:32:58,850 --> 01:32:57,179
doctor from 2000 the secret one where

2391
01:33:00,770 --> 01:32:58,860
they explained to the top Ministry of

2392
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,780
Defense leadership while UFOs are or

2393
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:02,639
what they thought the researcher thinks

2394
01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:04,800
they are uh important to note it's a

2395
01:33:08,750 --> 01:33:06,480
single researcher who did this their top

2396
01:33:11,870 --> 01:33:08,760
radar expert there's a whole section

2397
01:33:15,470 --> 01:33:11,880
about aircraft safety and the report

2398
01:33:17,330 --> 01:33:15,480
details particularly that they do pose

2399
01:33:19,930 --> 01:33:17,340
these objects do pose a threat to

2400
01:33:23,330 --> 01:33:19,940
civilian air traffic because of

2401
01:33:27,709 --> 01:33:23,340
involuntary inputs from a pilot trying

2402
01:33:30,590 --> 01:33:27,719
to avoid one in uh interesting aircraft

2403
01:33:33,470 --> 01:33:30,600
and the report that was secret uh you

2404
01:33:36,050 --> 01:33:33,480
know all that it's it it says

2405
01:33:40,010 --> 01:33:36,060
um civilian air traffic authorities

2406
01:33:43,010 --> 01:33:40,020
should be briefed on this threat and to

2407
01:33:44,750 --> 01:33:43,020
allow them to develop protocols so that

2408
01:33:45,770 --> 01:33:44,760
was something I leaned into when I was

2409
01:33:48,290 --> 01:33:45,780
trying to get people look at it it's

2410
01:33:50,209 --> 01:33:48,300
like this report explicitly advises the

2411
01:33:51,709 --> 01:33:50,219
ministry of Defense to inform civilian

2412
01:33:53,629 --> 01:33:51,719
air traffic authorities that this is a

2413
01:33:55,850 --> 01:33:53,639
threat that's their internal report

2414
01:33:57,290 --> 01:33:55,860
saying that and they have not issued a

2415
01:33:59,149 --> 01:33:57,300
single uh warning there is zero

2416
01:34:00,830 --> 01:33:59,159
indication they ever alerted air traffic

2417
01:34:01,729 --> 01:34:00,840
authorities to what was reported in

2418
01:34:03,830 --> 01:34:01,739
there

2419
01:34:06,169 --> 01:34:03,840
you know that that's uh that's troubling

2420
01:34:08,030 --> 01:34:06,179
to me regardless of whether it's true or

2421
01:34:10,910 --> 01:34:08,040
not fundamentally they if they think

2422
01:34:13,010 --> 01:34:10,920
it's true that's pretty bad isn't that

2423
01:34:14,870 --> 01:34:13,020
kind of a problem that UFOs aren't

2424
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:14,880
unidentified to most people because they

2425
01:34:18,350 --> 01:34:16,320
think they know what it is and they

2426
01:34:25,910 --> 01:34:18,360
think that it's something really strange

2427
01:34:30,890 --> 01:34:27,950
let me see oh this is this is a great

2428
01:34:32,990 --> 01:34:30,900
question we got earlier from sniffles

2429
01:34:35,870 --> 01:34:33,000
um oh I just reading that name aloud I

2430
01:34:37,790 --> 01:34:35,880
just put two and two together fantastic

2431
01:34:39,890 --> 01:34:37,800
um is not having first-hand experience

2432
01:34:41,629 --> 01:34:39,900
of the phenomenon a help or hindrance

2433
01:34:43,189 --> 01:34:41,639
when it comes to understanding or

2434
01:34:45,590 --> 01:34:43,199
engaging with the experience or

2435
01:34:48,050 --> 01:34:45,600
Community that's the first part of the

2436
01:34:50,330 --> 01:34:48,060
question and I'll pull it back up and

2437
01:34:52,430 --> 01:34:50,340
the second part is do you feel that it

2438
01:34:54,350 --> 01:34:52,440
offers you a more objective perspective

2439
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:54,360
or is the subjective nature of the

2440
01:35:00,890 --> 01:34:57,840
subject matter alienating to you

2441
01:35:02,209 --> 01:35:00,900
hmm that's good I don't know that it's

2442
01:35:03,530 --> 01:35:02,219
alienating to me I think it's

2443
01:35:06,709 --> 01:35:03,540
interesting to me

2444
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:06,719
um I kind of wish I had had some kind of

2445
01:35:09,590 --> 01:35:08,639
experience that I could kind of relate

2446
01:35:10,669 --> 01:35:09,600
to

2447
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:10,679
but

2448
01:35:14,330 --> 01:35:12,480
um I don't know maybe it does keep me

2449
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,340
objective I I don't know because I don't

2450
01:35:17,810 --> 01:35:16,320
know the other side of the coin right I

2451
01:35:20,270 --> 01:35:17,820
only come from my kind of like

2452
01:35:23,149 --> 01:35:20,280
materialist and skeptical perspective of

2453
01:35:25,610 --> 01:35:23,159
not having an anomalous experience like

2454
01:35:27,530 --> 01:35:25,620
this so I'm not sure

2455
01:35:31,510 --> 01:35:27,540
yeah I don't think experience a

2456
01:35:34,669 --> 01:35:31,520
community takes criticism right

2457
01:35:36,649 --> 01:35:34,679
you could be um trying like you could be

2458
01:35:38,930 --> 01:35:36,659
a scientist trying to investigate this

2459
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:38,940
stuff objectively and dispassionately

2460
01:35:43,189 --> 01:35:40,800
and uh coming at it from a third person

2461
01:35:44,510 --> 01:35:43,199
scientific point of view uh with the

2462
01:35:46,430 --> 01:35:44,520
tools of science

2463
01:35:49,310 --> 01:35:46,440
but some people automatically see that

2464
01:35:51,169 --> 01:35:49,320
as an attack or as if you're undermining

2465
01:35:52,910 --> 01:35:51,179
their experiences which you might not be

2466
01:35:55,070 --> 01:35:52,920
denying at all like they had an

2467
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:55,080
experience but it doesn't mean that the

2468
01:36:00,530 --> 01:35:56,880
experiences um explanation should be

2469
01:36:02,390 --> 01:36:00,540
credited so but people take it serious

2470
01:36:04,189 --> 01:36:02,400
personally because it's deeply personal

2471
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:04,199
by definition

2472
01:36:07,610 --> 01:36:06,000
so I guess it depends on the um

2473
01:36:08,410 --> 01:36:07,620
experience of communities

2474
01:36:15,169 --> 01:36:08,420
um

2475
01:36:20,450 --> 01:36:18,250
I don't think any of us have had

2476
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:20,460
any of you guys had an anomalous

2477
01:36:23,770 --> 01:36:22,560
experience or reciting or anything not

2478
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:23,780
really

2479
01:36:30,470 --> 01:36:27,600
UFO it's only uh the um the hypnagogue

2480
01:36:32,810 --> 01:36:30,480
hallucinations that I have retroactively

2481
01:36:34,330 --> 01:36:32,820
realized matter to uh the experience or

2482
01:36:37,070 --> 01:36:34,340
Community

2483
01:36:38,510 --> 01:36:37,080
but nothing I haven't seen any UFOs or

2484
01:36:42,470 --> 01:36:38,520
anything yeah

2485
01:36:44,030 --> 01:36:42,480
dude I would love to yeah I I have uh

2486
01:36:45,649 --> 01:36:44,040
I've back channeled with a couple of

2487
01:36:48,530 --> 01:36:45,659
people to try and get on a ca5

2488
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:48,540
experience and everything like yeah oh

2489
01:36:54,229 --> 01:36:50,880
me too like I'm

2490
01:36:57,290 --> 01:36:54,239
I am as open as like

2491
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:57,300
let's do it like I'm open to any of

2492
01:37:01,370 --> 01:36:58,800
those experiences I will totally do that

2493
01:37:03,890 --> 01:37:01,380
I'll go ghost hunting again you know I

2494
01:37:05,689 --> 01:37:03,900
um I'm basically a chain smoker I I

2495
01:37:07,370 --> 01:37:05,699
watch this guy every night when I go out

2496
01:37:11,270 --> 01:37:07,380
and smoke all the time just in case you

2497
01:37:16,490 --> 01:37:13,250
but having said

2498
01:37:18,530 --> 01:37:16,500
that you want to experience it since

2499
01:37:19,910 --> 01:37:18,540
um The Invisible ninth School tries to

2500
01:37:22,490 --> 01:37:19,920
tackle this from

2501
01:37:24,229 --> 01:37:22,500
a rational point of view isn't that

2502
01:37:26,209 --> 01:37:24,239
already kind of bringing baggage into it

2503
01:37:28,669 --> 01:37:26,219
because you're kind of pre presupposing

2504
01:37:29,930 --> 01:37:28,679
that oh it's it's cool to have the

2505
01:37:32,149 --> 01:37:29,940
experience but it's probably just

2506
01:37:34,129 --> 01:37:32,159
something going on in the brain whereas

2507
01:37:36,410 --> 01:37:34,139
somebody else might say yeah I want to

2508
01:37:38,270 --> 01:37:36,420
see an alien ship and they're bringing

2509
01:37:40,910 --> 01:37:38,280
the package of this is an

2510
01:37:42,890 --> 01:37:40,920
extraterrestrial craft so

2511
01:37:45,169 --> 01:37:42,900
it's like the um

2512
01:37:47,030 --> 01:37:45,179
the ontological status of the experience

2513
01:37:48,370 --> 01:37:47,040
is going to be different for us yeah

2514
01:37:51,050 --> 01:37:48,380
definitely

2515
01:37:53,570 --> 01:37:51,060
I would still really like to have such

2516
01:37:58,250 --> 01:37:53,580
an experience even if even if I know 100

2517
01:38:04,250 --> 01:38:01,250
awesome oh go ahead Campbell

2518
01:38:07,250 --> 01:38:04,260
uh well I just did my experience uh

2519
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:07,260
jumping into this so suddenly uh during

2520
01:38:12,410 --> 01:38:10,080
the shutdowns in the virus and having no

2521
01:38:13,490 --> 01:38:12,420
experience with any of these subjects uh

2522
01:38:16,189 --> 01:38:13,500
before

2523
01:38:18,770 --> 01:38:16,199
um I would say that I definitely uh

2524
01:38:21,770 --> 01:38:18,780
struggled with understanding and

2525
01:38:23,510 --> 01:38:21,780
communicating with experiencers and it

2526
01:38:27,590 --> 01:38:23,520
was only after

2527
01:38:30,530 --> 01:38:27,600
a long term uh in one-on-one

2528
01:38:33,229 --> 01:38:30,540
conversations and becoming Friends with

2529
01:38:36,070 --> 01:38:33,239
several personally that I started to

2530
01:38:39,250 --> 01:38:36,080
really fully fundamentally appreciate

2531
01:38:42,950 --> 01:38:39,260
that side of this whole thing because

2532
01:38:44,930 --> 01:38:42,960
from the outside I I never had any

2533
01:38:47,689 --> 01:38:44,940
contact with the culture it was only

2534
01:38:50,450 --> 01:38:47,699
sort of abstractions around the subject

2535
01:38:52,430 --> 01:38:50,460
that I never looked at it so I I did I

2536
01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:52,440
do think it did hurt me to not

2537
01:38:57,050 --> 01:38:55,440
have engaged with it through like I

2538
01:38:59,510 --> 01:38:57,060
guess some kind of recognition that I'd

2539
01:39:01,729 --> 01:38:59,520
had on all those experiences uh it would

2540
01:39:03,890 --> 01:39:01,739
have helped maybe for me to uh have had

2541
01:39:10,010 --> 01:39:03,900
some kind of thing like that that I

2542
01:39:10,020 --> 01:39:14,930
yeah so

2543
01:39:20,330 --> 01:39:17,750
so I would I would I know I was I was

2544
01:39:23,629 --> 01:39:20,340
thinking about what I was going to say

2545
01:39:26,149 --> 01:39:23,639
um says Sleepytime tea it's getting you

2546
01:39:27,709 --> 01:39:26,159
it is actually in the interest of full

2547
01:39:29,930 --> 01:39:27,719
disclosure it actually wasn't sleepy

2548
01:39:31,970 --> 01:39:29,940
time it was kavakava tea so it's

2549
01:39:35,510 --> 01:39:31,980
especially like

2550
01:39:38,330 --> 01:39:35,520
um you know I

2551
01:39:40,669 --> 01:39:38,340
I have never had well one I would say

2552
01:39:42,110 --> 01:39:40,679
that the definition of experience here

2553
01:39:44,090 --> 01:39:42,120
is extremely broad

2554
01:39:45,169 --> 01:39:44,100
um and my sort of pet theory is that a

2555
01:39:47,030 --> 01:39:45,179
whole lot of what people are talking

2556
01:39:48,229 --> 01:39:47,040
about when they talk about experience is

2557
01:39:49,669 --> 01:39:48,239
they're also talk is they're really

2558
01:39:51,350 --> 01:39:49,679
talking about episodes of spiritual

2559
01:39:52,910 --> 01:39:51,360
inversions but I would also say that not

2560
01:39:54,410 --> 01:39:52,920
all episodes of spiritual immersion are

2561
01:39:56,870 --> 01:39:54,420
the same I would never call myself an

2562
01:39:58,070 --> 01:39:56,880
experience or in any meaningful sense uh

2563
01:39:58,729 --> 01:39:58,080
at all

2564
01:40:00,350 --> 01:39:58,739
um

2565
01:40:02,689 --> 01:40:00,360
that's not to say I wouldn't love to

2566
01:40:06,169 --> 01:40:02,699
have an experience I I would love to go

2567
01:40:07,910 --> 01:40:06,179
out on a highest or ce5 event

2568
01:40:09,350 --> 01:40:07,920
um I am super open to any and all of

2569
01:40:14,209 --> 01:40:09,360
those

2570
01:40:17,810 --> 01:40:14,219
um I think that having a protonatural

2571
01:40:25,910 --> 01:40:22,669
attachment to mysticism and the numinous

2572
01:40:29,649 --> 01:40:25,920
gives me some degree of sympathy for

2573
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:29,659
this subject and probably biases

2574
01:40:37,189 --> 01:40:34,400
My Views I also

2575
01:40:38,629 --> 01:40:37,199
rigorously talk to experiencers a

2576
01:40:40,010 --> 01:40:38,639
handful of very close friends that I've

2577
01:40:41,870 --> 01:40:40,020
made over the last few months are

2578
01:40:43,610 --> 01:40:41,880
absolutely experiencers and I believe

2579
01:40:46,370 --> 01:40:43,620
that they have things happen to them

2580
01:40:46,970 --> 01:40:46,380
that are mysterious and anomalous

2581
01:40:48,649 --> 01:40:46,980
um

2582
01:40:51,890 --> 01:40:48,659
I just hope at one point it'll be my

2583
01:40:53,750 --> 01:40:51,900
turn to uh to go to bat too and have

2584
01:40:58,370 --> 01:40:53,760
something super wild and far out happen

2585
01:41:04,910 --> 01:41:02,149
um I have a huge appetite for uh

2586
01:41:09,169 --> 01:41:04,920
anything that shifts my reality or

2587
01:41:12,050 --> 01:41:09,179
perception and I would love to to me it

2588
01:41:13,490 --> 01:41:12,060
feels like this maybe is a maybe a weird

2589
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:13,500
thing to say but it almost feels to me

2590
01:41:17,570 --> 01:41:15,360
like going through it's like a Rubicon

2591
01:41:19,310 --> 01:41:17,580
like to have something really strange

2592
01:41:21,649 --> 01:41:19,320
kind of shift your whole world view like

2593
01:41:24,110 --> 01:41:21,659
childbirth or witnessing something

2594
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:24,120
spectacular or something like it becomes

2595
01:41:27,770 --> 01:41:26,639
like a peak experience and I I am so

2596
01:41:29,629 --> 01:41:27,780
open and would love to have something

2597
01:41:31,850 --> 01:41:29,639
like that happen but unfortunately I

2598
01:41:33,709 --> 01:41:31,860
have not this is what you're saying and

2599
01:41:35,930 --> 01:41:33,719
reminding me of uh conversations we're

2600
01:41:38,890 --> 01:41:35,940
having the Discord a little while ago

2601
01:41:41,570 --> 01:41:38,900
about near-death experiences and

2602
01:41:44,270 --> 01:41:41,580
hallucinogens and I remember a

2603
01:41:48,109 --> 01:41:44,280
particularly intriguing study that

2604
01:41:52,010 --> 01:41:48,119
showed that even when material is

2605
01:41:55,370 --> 01:41:52,020
atheists take DMT and before taking it

2606
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:55,380
they say they have no belief in

2607
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:57,360
alternate Dimensions you know all that

2608
01:42:02,030 --> 01:41:58,080
stuff

2609
01:42:05,209 --> 01:42:02,040
after taking DMT it is a terrifying

2610
01:42:07,790 --> 01:42:05,219
number that then report that they now

2611
01:42:10,310 --> 01:42:07,800
believe in the experience that they had

2612
01:42:13,790 --> 01:42:10,320
as being fundamentally real physically

2613
01:42:16,729 --> 01:42:13,800
in some sense and that there's something

2614
01:42:19,010 --> 01:42:16,739
going on there that's very uh alarming

2615
01:42:23,330 --> 01:42:19,020
but also fascinating and it makes me

2616
01:42:25,790 --> 01:42:23,340
wonder uh if it's like if I I don't know

2617
01:42:29,209 --> 01:42:25,800
if I would I'd be concerned about taking

2618
01:42:31,370 --> 01:42:29,219
DMT uh because of the implications I

2619
01:42:32,810 --> 01:42:31,380
mean like maybe it's true maybe I mean I

2620
01:42:34,729 --> 01:42:32,820
I don't think it's like fundamentally

2621
01:42:36,410 --> 01:42:34,739
true I think that the brain undergoes a

2622
01:42:38,810 --> 01:42:36,420
change and you experience it as real but

2623
01:42:40,970 --> 01:42:38,820
it could be real and uh you know the

2624
01:42:43,729 --> 01:42:40,980
fact that maybe going through that you

2625
01:42:46,010 --> 01:42:43,739
believe fundamentally that it is real

2626
01:42:47,649 --> 01:42:46,020
regardless like completely change your

2627
01:42:51,890 --> 01:42:47,659
life trajectory

2628
01:42:54,229 --> 01:42:51,900
by the way yeah yeah that said we're all

2629
01:42:56,570 --> 01:42:54,239
doing DMT uh at the desert conference

2630
01:42:59,450 --> 01:42:56,580
right right yes and uh somebody asked

2631
01:43:01,550 --> 01:42:59,460
here as Leah tried DMT and um I will

2632
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:01,560
pull for a line that I use when

2633
01:43:05,990 --> 01:43:03,119
discussing my sex life which is

2634
01:43:07,729 --> 01:43:06,000
basically to say a lady never tells

2635
01:43:09,470 --> 01:43:07,739
um well I would tell and I have not done

2636
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:09,480
the Mt I have done shrooms many times

2637
01:43:13,189 --> 01:43:10,800
though

2638
01:43:15,109 --> 01:43:13,199
um yes you also live in Canada uh you

2639
01:43:17,149 --> 01:43:15,119
could yeah you get to enjoy the luxury

2640
01:43:19,550 --> 01:43:17,159
of living in a civilized country I get

2641
01:43:22,550 --> 01:43:19,560
to live in a

2642
01:43:25,609 --> 01:43:22,560
um well let's not get political

2643
01:43:28,129 --> 01:43:25,619
um a very different country uh we're

2644
01:43:29,290 --> 01:43:28,139
South of the Border right

2645
01:43:31,729 --> 01:43:29,300
yeah

2646
01:43:34,430 --> 01:43:31,739
I wouldn't recommend mushrooms to

2647
01:43:37,189 --> 01:43:34,440
everybody uh and take in uh in a

2648
01:43:39,410 --> 01:43:37,199
reasonable way a moderate dose

2649
01:43:42,050 --> 01:43:39,420
which would be like minimal like maybe

2650
01:43:44,270 --> 01:43:42,060
one maximum two grams I think yeah two

2651
01:43:46,370 --> 01:43:44,280
grams be transformative uh I think that

2652
01:43:49,790 --> 01:43:46,380
it can be very healing

2653
01:43:51,050 --> 01:43:49,800
and uh I I I'm very in favor of exactly

2654
01:43:52,609 --> 01:43:51,060
what you've been describingly like the

2655
01:43:53,930 --> 01:43:52,619
Psychedelic therapy and things like that

2656
01:43:56,090 --> 01:43:53,940
I really personally threw my own

2657
01:43:58,729 --> 01:43:56,100
experience even as materialist atheist

2658
01:44:00,649 --> 01:43:58,739
with no real belief in anything uh no

2659
01:44:02,450 --> 01:44:00,659
intrinsic meaning in the universe I find

2660
01:44:04,370 --> 01:44:02,460
them very helpful

2661
01:44:06,229 --> 01:44:04,380
so so I have a question

2662
01:44:08,750 --> 01:44:06,239
um and I'm

2663
01:44:10,609 --> 01:44:08,760
I read this book over the summer by

2664
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:10,619
Florence Williams and in it she talks

2665
01:44:15,530 --> 01:44:12,960
about the relationship between people

2666
01:44:18,890 --> 01:44:15,540
that experience aesthetic chill

2667
01:44:22,490 --> 01:44:18,900
with their ability to heal from grief

2668
01:44:25,330 --> 01:44:22,500
and Trauma and she connects this um idea

2669
01:44:30,229 --> 01:44:25,340
of or experience of an aesthetic chill

2670
01:44:33,890 --> 01:44:30,239
with an underlying openness to

2671
01:44:36,590 --> 01:44:33,900
like the mysterious or the mystical

2672
01:44:38,930 --> 01:44:36,600
and I preface this to say um do you guys

2673
01:44:40,609 --> 01:44:38,940
experience aesthetic chill like do you

2674
01:44:43,430 --> 01:44:40,619
ever have that feeling or that sense

2675
01:44:45,709 --> 01:44:43,440
it's like a it's almost like a vertigo

2676
01:44:48,350 --> 01:44:45,719
kind of feeling or an expansive kind of

2677
01:44:50,149 --> 01:44:48,360
Flash in your Consciousness when

2678
01:44:52,790 --> 01:44:50,159
encountering

2679
01:44:55,310 --> 01:44:52,800
um like music or natural landscape it's

2680
01:44:58,370 --> 01:44:55,320
like it's like a very intense sense of

2681
01:45:00,350 --> 01:44:58,380
awe it feels oh it is it is kind of

2682
01:45:03,050 --> 01:45:00,360
psychedelic in a sense because it's this

2683
01:45:05,870 --> 01:45:03,060
like very kind of overwhelming

2684
01:45:08,689 --> 01:45:05,880
um response do you guys ever experience

2685
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:08,699
that or feel it I don't believe I have I

2686
01:45:12,770 --> 01:45:10,080
think I've felt it when I've watched

2687
01:45:14,510 --> 01:45:12,780
horror movies where the scene where like

2688
01:45:15,890 --> 01:45:14,520
it's so horrific that it becomes

2689
01:45:18,649 --> 01:45:15,900
beautiful in a way

2690
01:45:22,129 --> 01:45:18,659
uh how to explain have you watched a

2691
01:45:23,930 --> 01:45:22,139
movie on uh mid-summer

2692
01:45:28,010 --> 01:45:23,940
you know you know when the The Woman

2693
01:45:30,590 --> 01:45:28,020
face plants it yes yes like as she was

2694
01:45:33,350 --> 01:45:30,600
because like um in that scene you could

2695
01:45:35,629 --> 01:45:33,360
um see the reaction of the girl American

2696
01:45:36,890 --> 01:45:35,639
girl who was visiting the the place

2697
01:45:39,530 --> 01:45:36,900
right

2698
01:45:41,750 --> 01:45:39,540
um it was like um

2699
01:45:43,669 --> 01:45:41,760
or you have to watch the movie but um

2700
01:45:46,250 --> 01:45:43,679
should watch the movie I liked that one

2701
01:45:48,530 --> 01:45:46,260
yeah I got something so you can you can

2702
01:45:50,629 --> 01:45:48,540
spoil it I'll never see it so

2703
01:45:53,570 --> 01:45:50,639
you should watch it though yeah it's

2704
01:45:55,189 --> 01:45:53,580
good dude I don't watch movies I I don't

2705
01:45:57,109 --> 01:45:55,199
watch anything I live like a [\h__\h]

2706
01:45:58,729 --> 01:45:57,119
14th century monk with the exception of

2707
01:46:00,950 --> 01:45:58,739
this show and Twitter all I do is read

2708
01:46:03,350 --> 01:46:00,960
books I don't know

2709
01:46:06,109 --> 01:46:03,360
um yeah I know the exact scene you're

2710
01:46:07,850 --> 01:46:06,119
talking about uh which was you know

2711
01:46:09,470 --> 01:46:07,860
shocking startling

2712
01:46:12,590 --> 01:46:09,480
um I wouldn't say I personally

2713
01:46:14,030 --> 01:46:12,600
experienced anything outside of that

2714
01:46:16,850 --> 01:46:14,040
yeah

2715
01:46:19,490 --> 01:46:16,860
I I would say that I definitely uh do

2716
01:46:21,830 --> 01:46:19,500
relate to that and um I would almost say

2717
01:46:25,090 --> 01:46:21,840
it like I chase it in a way like you

2718
01:46:26,930 --> 01:46:25,100
need to expose myself to uh different

2719
01:46:30,770 --> 01:46:26,940
environmental stimuli and things like

2720
01:46:33,229 --> 01:46:30,780
that like I'll go on a hike uh in the

2721
01:46:35,750 --> 01:46:33,239
forest when the snow's falling and I'll

2722
01:46:37,370 --> 01:46:35,760
look over my Lake and it'll be silent

2723
01:46:39,590 --> 01:46:37,380
and nobody around and I'll like just

2724
01:46:41,629 --> 01:46:39,600
dwell in it and have a feeling of

2725
01:46:43,970 --> 01:46:41,639
dissociation very nice and uh you know

2726
01:46:45,770 --> 01:46:43,980
stuff like that and I do absolutely uh

2727
01:46:46,790 --> 01:46:45,780
relate to that effect uh what about you

2728
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:46,800
Leah

2729
01:46:52,250 --> 01:46:49,440
oh yeah yeah I totally get it

2730
01:46:56,090 --> 01:46:52,260
um and it's something that I never

2731
01:46:57,830 --> 01:46:56,100
ascribed much meaning to or anything

2732
01:47:00,410 --> 01:46:57,840
um

2733
01:47:01,669 --> 01:47:00,420
oh look yes Vapor missile here feeling a

2734
01:47:03,830 --> 01:47:01,679
deep throat getting weak in the knees

2735
01:47:05,689 --> 01:47:03,840
having a spiritual sensation yeah this

2736
01:47:07,729 --> 01:47:05,699
this describes it um for me it's always

2737
01:47:08,990 --> 01:47:07,739
been in places of natural beauty Grand

2738
01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:09,000
Canyon

2739
01:47:16,070 --> 01:47:12,480
um I I climbed Masada at like 4 00 a.m

2740
01:47:19,070 --> 01:47:16,080
about 10 years ago and watching the like

2741
01:47:20,990 --> 01:47:19,080
line of flashlights up the mountain like

2742
01:47:23,149 --> 01:47:21,000
induced into me

2743
01:47:24,649 --> 01:47:23,159
um climbing Half Dome did it I mean part

2744
01:47:26,629 --> 01:47:24,659
of the reason I love to ski is because

2745
01:47:30,229 --> 01:47:26,639
skiing gives me that feeling that sort

2746
01:47:31,490 --> 01:47:30,239
of like expansive like flow kind it's

2747
01:47:33,410 --> 01:47:31,500
almost like a flow State it's like a

2748
01:47:34,189 --> 01:47:33,420
flow State on steroids

2749
01:47:36,590 --> 01:47:34,199
um

2750
01:47:38,450 --> 01:47:36,600
but I've I've very deliberately sought

2751
01:47:40,430 --> 01:47:38,460
it and for me it's also

2752
01:47:42,350 --> 01:47:40,440
um it's frequently a company is just a

2753
01:47:44,030 --> 01:47:42,360
very intensely physical experience like

2754
01:47:45,770 --> 01:47:44,040
my breathing will change like I'll feel

2755
01:47:47,810 --> 01:47:45,780
like very emotional

2756
01:47:49,430 --> 01:47:47,820
um it's super intense it's really cool I

2757
01:47:51,109 --> 01:47:49,440
get it with music

2758
01:47:53,570 --> 01:47:51,119
um I definitely felt it when I saw The

2759
01:47:56,149 --> 01:47:53,580
Ring performed live

2760
01:47:58,189 --> 01:47:56,159
um parts of the the opening overtures to

2761
01:48:00,950 --> 01:47:58,199
the four operas like definitely induced

2762
01:48:05,030 --> 01:48:00,960
it in May which was really really cool

2763
01:48:09,890 --> 01:48:07,310
yeah what's

2764
01:48:12,350 --> 01:48:09,900
up we touched on this on one of our old

2765
01:48:15,970 --> 01:48:12,360
spaces I think too and this is reminding

2766
01:48:17,709 --> 01:48:15,980
me uh how I may be stunted in someone

2767
01:48:20,810 --> 01:48:17,719
yeah

2768
01:48:22,550 --> 01:48:20,820
but the thing is is it in in this book

2769
01:48:23,930 --> 01:48:22,560
uh the reason I bring it up is she talks

2770
01:48:25,490 --> 01:48:23,940
about how a substantial portion of the

2771
01:48:28,070 --> 01:48:25,500
population just doesn't experience it

2772
01:48:31,070 --> 01:48:28,080
like it's just not they just don't feel

2773
01:48:32,330 --> 01:48:31,080
that which is really fascinating and

2774
01:48:36,770 --> 01:48:32,340
it's a lot it's like one out of four

2775
01:48:38,810 --> 01:48:36,780
people which damn voila oh

2776
01:48:41,270 --> 01:48:38,820
I guess I just have video games to play

2777
01:48:43,310 --> 01:48:41,280
so I get my excitement

2778
01:48:44,629 --> 01:48:43,320
this is fascinating Visa is weird

2779
01:48:46,250 --> 01:48:44,639
tangent but you know that feeling when

2780
01:48:47,390 --> 01:48:46,260
your nervous system lights up like when

2781
01:48:48,950 --> 01:48:47,400
you accidentally drive through a red

2782
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:48,960
light Psychopaths don't feel that yeah

2783
01:48:52,990 --> 01:48:50,400
you know who else I bet doesn't feel

2784
01:48:55,669 --> 01:48:53,000
that are like surgeons and CEOs

2785
01:48:58,129 --> 01:48:55,679
uh you know like like people that

2786
01:49:00,050 --> 01:48:58,139
basically also Psychopaths

2787
01:49:02,689 --> 01:49:00,060
um or or like fighter pilots or whatever

2788
01:49:04,910 --> 01:49:02,699
like people who are basically trained

2789
01:49:07,790 --> 01:49:04,920
their entire nervous system to not

2790
01:49:09,050 --> 01:49:07,800
respond in in situations of life or

2791
01:49:11,810 --> 01:49:09,060
death

2792
01:49:13,970 --> 01:49:11,820
that makes sense but ASMR so this is

2793
01:49:16,430 --> 01:49:13,980
oops ASMR fascinating because I don't

2794
01:49:18,770 --> 01:49:16,440
get anything out of ASMR no my wife does

2795
01:49:21,290 --> 01:49:18,780
a lot she watches it every night um and

2796
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:21,300
I it doesn't affect me

2797
01:49:25,189 --> 01:49:23,280
unfortunately

2798
01:49:26,870 --> 01:49:25,199
gives me like a negative feeling I'm

2799
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:26,880
like ah yeah it feels like kind of weird

2800
01:49:30,770 --> 01:49:28,320
it's like hearing someone chew or

2801
01:49:32,390 --> 01:49:30,780
something it's unpleasant yes yes maybe

2802
01:49:34,189 --> 01:49:32,400
I just haven't tried it enough but uh

2803
01:49:35,810 --> 01:49:34,199
yeah exactly that's my experience I mean

2804
01:49:37,370 --> 01:49:35,820
there's there's a lot of different kinds

2805
01:49:39,169 --> 01:49:37,380
and different uh triggers I think is

2806
01:49:40,729 --> 01:49:39,179
what they call them um I watched one

2807
01:49:42,890 --> 01:49:40,739
today it was a woman looking through a

2808
01:49:51,370 --> 01:49:42,900
1970 Sears catalog I actually did kind

2809
01:49:55,910 --> 01:49:53,750
and going through the pages and talking

2810
01:49:57,649 --> 01:49:55,920
about the things she said this is

2811
01:49:59,209 --> 01:49:57,659
incredible this is like this feels like

2812
01:50:00,430 --> 01:49:59,219
a weird Penthouse Letter tell me more

2813
01:50:02,689 --> 01:50:00,440
Nick

2814
01:50:04,129 --> 01:50:02,699
I'll find the link it was that I liked

2815
01:50:05,629 --> 01:50:04,139
it I mean it was relaxing I had it on

2816
01:50:07,010 --> 01:50:05,639
the background while I was working and I

2817
01:50:08,629 --> 01:50:07,020
kind of enjoyed it but was she going

2818
01:50:10,250 --> 01:50:08,639
through the lingerie section

2819
01:50:13,850 --> 01:50:10,260
I don't think we got there there was a

2820
01:50:17,810 --> 01:50:13,860
lot of uh nylon clothing

2821
01:50:20,990 --> 01:50:17,820
um and vinyl in uh PVC PVC jackets

2822
01:50:23,149 --> 01:50:21,000
he is incredible

2823
01:50:27,970 --> 01:50:23,159
it's pretty cool Incredible no tingles

2824
01:50:32,030 --> 01:50:30,350
let's see I have I have a question here

2825
01:50:34,370 --> 01:50:32,040
from Swayze who's already dropped off

2826
01:50:36,530 --> 01:50:34,380
the stream but what would what would be

2827
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:36,540
the incentive for an advanced species to

2828
01:50:40,669 --> 01:50:39,119
visit us exploitation

2829
01:50:42,189 --> 01:50:40,679
right

2830
01:50:45,410 --> 01:50:42,199
um

2831
01:50:47,810 --> 01:50:45,420
minerals are the people here maybe to

2832
01:50:50,810 --> 01:50:47,820
get ideas from Evolution uh there's like

2833
01:50:53,270 --> 01:50:50,820
millions of solutions to ecological

2834
01:50:54,590 --> 01:50:53,280
challenges that Evolution has thrown up

2835
01:50:56,270 --> 01:50:54,600
so um

2836
01:50:58,550 --> 01:50:56,280
there's actually one of the things that

2837
01:51:01,669 --> 01:50:58,560
is brought up in conservation

2838
01:51:03,410 --> 01:51:01,679
policy is that if we make species go

2839
01:51:05,090 --> 01:51:03,420
extinct and we're potentially losing

2840
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:05,100
something which would be a tangible

2841
01:51:08,450 --> 01:51:06,719
benefit to us

2842
01:51:09,669 --> 01:51:08,460
because there might be some sort of drug

2843
01:51:12,050 --> 01:51:09,679
or other

2844
01:51:14,689 --> 01:51:12,060
biomimicry technology we could have

2845
01:51:17,090 --> 01:51:14,699
gotten from that so maybe aliens are

2846
01:51:19,310 --> 01:51:17,100
searching for um you know biological

2847
01:51:22,729 --> 01:51:19,320
Solutions yeah

2848
01:51:24,070 --> 01:51:22,739
book you know those curiosity or

2849
01:51:25,790 --> 01:51:24,080
communion

2850
01:51:28,370 --> 01:51:25,800
yeah

2851
01:51:30,830 --> 01:51:28,380
and then you know and I uh my opinion on

2852
01:51:34,750 --> 01:51:30,840
this uh deviates uh from a lot of other

2853
01:51:37,310 --> 01:51:34,760
Skeptics in that I um do project human

2854
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:37,320
characteristics onto

2855
01:51:42,229 --> 01:51:40,320
um the potential non-human intelligence

2856
01:51:44,570 --> 01:51:42,239
that would come here and my reasoning

2857
01:51:47,290 --> 01:51:44,580
for that it may be flawed but it is that

2858
01:51:49,609 --> 01:51:47,300
essentially there's the fundamental

2859
01:51:52,010 --> 01:51:49,619
self-replication and expansion is the

2860
01:51:54,709 --> 01:51:52,020
fundamental nature of what we see on

2861
01:51:56,450 --> 01:51:54,719
earth that is a you know common factor

2862
01:51:58,250 --> 01:51:56,460
it is expanding outward if something

2863
01:52:00,530 --> 01:51:58,260
comes here it is expanding due to

2864
01:52:02,810 --> 01:52:00,540
self-replication that requires implicit

2865
01:52:04,129 --> 01:52:02,820
resources that's how I interpret it sure

2866
01:52:06,950 --> 01:52:04,139
I would see them coming here in a

2867
01:52:09,229 --> 01:52:06,960
similar way to how humans travel to the

2868
01:52:11,990 --> 01:52:09,239
new world uh in you know just everywhere

2869
01:52:14,750 --> 01:52:12,000
colonize exploitation we know that Earth

2870
01:52:17,209 --> 01:52:14,760
is well we suspect heavily based on our

2871
01:52:18,470 --> 01:52:17,219
investigations into the universe uh with

2872
01:52:20,750 --> 01:52:18,480
our everything that the Earth is

2873
01:52:21,410 --> 01:52:20,760
relatively rare as a type of

2874
01:52:24,770 --> 01:52:21,420
um

2875
01:52:28,010 --> 01:52:24,780
planetary body abnormally large Moon

2876
01:52:29,270 --> 01:52:28,020
keeps our you know magnetic field strong

2877
01:52:31,310 --> 01:52:29,280
and things like that so there could be

2878
01:52:32,930 --> 01:52:31,320
reasons why it would be extraordinarily

2879
01:52:34,490 --> 01:52:32,940
rare to have an Earth-like planet and

2880
01:52:37,330 --> 01:52:34,500
there would be a reason to come here and

2881
01:52:39,590 --> 01:52:37,340
that's that's sort of my life is

2882
01:52:42,590 --> 01:52:39,600
very if they're extremely different to

2883
01:52:44,030 --> 01:52:42,600
us though Nick as you um as you were

2884
01:52:45,109 --> 01:52:44,040
alluding to that they might be so

2885
01:52:47,510 --> 01:52:45,119
different to us that we wouldn't

2886
01:52:50,750 --> 01:52:47,520
necessarily even recognize them would

2887
01:52:53,209 --> 01:52:50,760
they still want to um exploit us I

2888
01:52:57,229 --> 01:52:53,219
couldn't answer that but uh

2889
01:52:59,570 --> 01:52:57,239
who knows right no I suppose not that

2890
01:53:00,950 --> 01:52:59,580
Tria idea you said earlier I've never

2891
01:53:02,930 --> 01:53:00,960
heard that before and I thought that was

2892
01:53:05,510 --> 01:53:02,940
very cool because it made me immediately

2893
01:53:07,310 --> 01:53:05,520
think that trees cannot they indirectly

2894
01:53:08,750 --> 01:53:07,320
sense things around them and we now know

2895
01:53:10,250 --> 01:53:08,760
that they even transmit information to

2896
01:53:12,109 --> 01:53:10,260
each other through electrical signals in

2897
01:53:14,209 --> 01:53:12,119
their Roots uh through a variety of

2898
01:53:16,669 --> 01:53:14,219
studies but um like they can't

2899
01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:16,679
physically observe around them right and

2900
01:53:20,750 --> 01:53:18,719
you made me think like when you look at

2901
01:53:23,270 --> 01:53:20,760
the full spectrum of electromagnetic

2902
01:53:25,669 --> 01:53:23,280
radiation and human sight and perception

2903
01:53:27,109 --> 01:53:25,679
like it's it could it was so neat

2904
01:53:28,550 --> 01:53:27,119
because you made that come to the tree

2905
01:53:30,410 --> 01:53:28,560
and made me instantly think like yeah we

2906
01:53:32,030 --> 01:53:30,420
see basically nothing and it's like the

2907
01:53:34,189 --> 01:53:32,040
tree does sense things around it in

2908
01:53:36,370 --> 01:53:34,199
vague ways but nothing like what we're

2909
01:53:39,109 --> 01:53:36,380
saying so I think that is very cool

2910
01:53:40,129 --> 01:53:39,119
what did you say you uh heard that or

2911
01:53:42,050 --> 01:53:40,139
did you just come up with that analogy

2912
01:53:45,649 --> 01:53:42,060
yourself I came I I came up with that

2913
01:53:49,070 --> 01:53:45,659
talking to King milk fart nice nice the

2914
01:53:52,310 --> 01:53:50,689
um but I mean no that's something I've

2915
01:53:55,609 --> 01:53:52,320
kind of like thought but not verbalized

2916
01:53:57,229 --> 01:53:55,619
before just like uh I'm because like we

2917
01:53:59,510 --> 01:53:57,239
can see uh

2918
01:54:01,370 --> 01:53:59,520
uh similarities in us and like mammals

2919
01:54:03,050 --> 01:54:01,380
like my cat running around here but yeah

2920
01:54:04,790 --> 01:54:03,060
like plant life

2921
01:54:06,830 --> 01:54:04,800
I think it was at the last apartment I

2922
01:54:09,410 --> 01:54:06,840
had I was there was this tree in the

2923
01:54:11,330 --> 01:54:09,420
backyard that was bent and I just would

2924
01:54:13,430 --> 01:54:11,340
look at it and think about how weird a

2925
01:54:15,590 --> 01:54:13,440
tree is when you kind of like

2926
01:54:17,390 --> 01:54:15,600
take yourself out of uh your common

2927
01:54:19,189 --> 01:54:17,400
experience of growing up around trees

2928
01:54:21,229 --> 01:54:19,199
you just see this thing it looks like a

2929
01:54:24,350 --> 01:54:21,239
nervous system almost your veins coming

2930
01:54:27,109 --> 01:54:24,360
on it's just it's just a really weird

2931
01:54:29,570 --> 01:54:27,119
life form when uh when you compare it to

2932
01:54:31,490 --> 01:54:29,580
like what we know or like mammals even

2933
01:54:33,290 --> 01:54:31,500
insects are slightly different I mean

2934
01:54:35,030 --> 01:54:33,300
they're they're more similar to us than

2935
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:35,040
I'd say plants but

2936
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:36,960
which is not such a good point you're

2937
01:54:41,870 --> 01:54:39,360
making you know because I grow plants uh

2938
01:54:44,629 --> 01:54:41,880
for my uh right yeah we're very used to

2939
01:54:46,189 --> 01:54:44,639
them yeah that's exactly what how I see

2940
01:54:49,970 --> 01:54:46,199
them though and it's fascinating you say

2941
01:54:53,270 --> 01:54:49,980
that I see them as like a disbodied lung

2942
01:54:55,010 --> 01:54:53,280
and then uh right the intestinal tract

2943
01:54:57,050 --> 01:54:55,020
and that's like what they're doing right

2944
01:54:58,550 --> 01:54:57,060
and it's like if you take that out of

2945
01:55:00,890 --> 01:54:58,560
the human it looks very similar like the

2946
01:55:03,530 --> 01:55:00,900
alveoli in the lungs like they process

2947
01:55:04,669 --> 01:55:03,540
the air very similarly I suppose the

2948
01:55:06,290 --> 01:55:04,679
functions are reversed because it's like

2949
01:55:08,629 --> 01:55:06,300
the energies from the air but anyway but

2950
01:55:11,390 --> 01:55:08,639
yes I see it working very effectively in

2951
01:55:12,649 --> 01:55:11,400
that sense like it's such a good way to

2952
01:55:14,870 --> 01:55:12,659
describe it and I've never heard it

2953
01:55:16,490 --> 01:55:14,880
before it's so cool

2954
01:55:18,830 --> 01:55:16,500
yeah I am

2955
01:55:21,169 --> 01:55:18,840
uh yeah and it's ways happy to happy to

2956
01:55:23,209 --> 01:55:21,179
answer it glad you were able to hear I

2957
01:55:25,070 --> 01:55:23,219
um what this is reminding me of is the

2958
01:55:27,050 --> 01:55:25,080
qualia research institute some of the

2959
01:55:30,109 --> 01:55:27,060
writings on sort of what constitutes

2960
01:55:32,990 --> 01:55:30,119
Consciousness and suffering

2961
01:55:35,510 --> 01:55:33,000
um one of the ideas that they propose is

2962
01:55:40,370 --> 01:55:35,520
that the rate of processing sensory

2963
01:55:43,370 --> 01:55:40,380
input is what can map to the experience

2964
01:55:46,189 --> 01:55:43,380
of suffering or pleasure so

2965
01:55:48,229 --> 01:55:46,199
um human beings sensory input is

2966
01:55:49,669 --> 01:55:48,239
processed at like a particular rate of

2967
01:55:52,189 --> 01:55:49,679
information this is like a measurable

2968
01:55:54,410 --> 01:55:52,199
thing you can actually quantify it

2969
01:55:57,290 --> 01:55:54,420
um whereas something like a tree or a

2970
01:56:00,050 --> 01:55:57,300
plant's sensory input is processed at a

2971
01:56:01,510 --> 01:56:00,060
much lower kind of sampling rate and a

2972
01:56:04,850 --> 01:56:01,520
much slower speed

2973
01:56:06,590 --> 01:56:04,860
and they use that sort of framing to

2974
01:56:10,189 --> 01:56:06,600
talk about

2975
01:56:11,990 --> 01:56:10,199
um in the hierarchy of mitigation of

2976
01:56:14,390 --> 01:56:12,000
suffering human suffering and animal

2977
01:56:15,890 --> 01:56:14,400
suffering generally comes before Plant

2978
01:56:16,790 --> 01:56:15,900
suffering

2979
01:56:20,090 --> 01:56:16,800
um

2980
01:56:22,430 --> 01:56:20,100
and the experience of of pain

2981
01:56:25,070 --> 01:56:22,440
um that I'm always a huge plug for qri

2982
01:56:26,689 --> 01:56:25,080
it's totally uh

2983
01:56:28,430 --> 01:56:26,699
totally worth checking out all right so

2984
01:56:30,050 --> 01:56:28,440
I have one more question before we wrap

2985
01:56:32,330 --> 01:56:30,060
things up and this is coming from the

2986
01:56:34,430 --> 01:56:32,340
earth I love this one what's everyone's

2987
01:56:37,850 --> 01:56:34,440
favorite piece of art or fiction related

2988
01:56:43,669 --> 01:56:40,250
I know my answer like I [\h__\h] knew

2989
01:56:47,030 --> 01:56:43,679
mine I've oh dude can you start oh yeah

2990
01:56:50,570 --> 01:56:47,040
it's so um I I have literally seen in my

2991
01:56:51,709 --> 01:56:50,580
entire life probably like 30 movies ever

2992
01:56:54,590 --> 01:56:51,719
um

2993
01:56:56,689 --> 01:56:54,600
but uh the intellectual in me was to say

2994
01:56:59,570 --> 01:56:56,699
Close Encounters of the Third Kind but

2995
01:57:02,930 --> 01:56:59,580
the actual real answer is Mars Attacks

2996
01:57:04,910 --> 01:57:02,940
dude Mars Attacks is a [\h__\h] brilliant

2997
01:57:07,430 --> 01:57:04,920
film everybody's in it it's held up

2998
01:57:08,410 --> 01:57:07,440
beautifully it's so funny

2999
01:57:10,970 --> 01:57:08,420
um

3000
01:57:12,350 --> 01:57:10,980
it's not even a question yeah it's not

3001
01:57:15,050 --> 01:57:12,360
even a question

3002
01:57:17,149 --> 01:57:15,060
hmm incredible someone else go I'm

3003
01:57:19,129 --> 01:57:17,159
trying to think I mean I grew up as an

3004
01:57:20,330 --> 01:57:19,139
as an X-Files fan so that would be my

3005
01:57:23,089 --> 01:57:20,340
default but I want to think if there's

3006
01:57:26,629 --> 01:57:23,099
something that I like better it was a

3007
01:57:28,790 --> 01:57:26,639
question just about UFOs or also aliens

3008
01:57:30,830 --> 01:57:28,800
um it could be well it's UFOs but Are

3009
01:57:32,510 --> 01:57:30,840
UFOs I'm open to a creative

3010
01:57:35,089 --> 01:57:32,520
interpretation here

3011
01:57:37,490 --> 01:57:35,099
I was gonna say aliens starring

3012
01:57:40,370 --> 01:57:37,500
Sigourney Weaver but um

3013
01:57:42,050 --> 01:57:40,380
um if it's just UFOs then it would be uh

3014
01:57:44,689 --> 01:57:42,060
Close Encounters

3015
01:57:47,450 --> 01:57:44,699
yes all right yeah if it's if it's just

3016
01:57:51,350 --> 01:57:47,460
aliens I'm gonna say alien and not

3017
01:57:53,209 --> 01:57:51,360
aliens wow specifically but Luis and I

3018
01:57:55,310 --> 01:57:53,219
have we've talked about that about how

3019
01:57:56,930 --> 01:57:55,320
As I Grew Older I kind of grew a

3020
01:57:59,330 --> 01:57:56,940
distaste for aliens because they made

3021
01:58:01,370 --> 01:57:59,340
the aliens less alien does that make

3022
01:58:05,089 --> 01:58:01,380
sense but um

3023
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:05,099
that's true that's actually my first I

3024
01:58:08,689 --> 01:58:06,480
have to admit that I'm not stealing this

3025
01:58:12,109 --> 01:58:08,699
my first thought was like the alien

3026
01:58:14,330 --> 01:58:12,119
franchise um super into sci-fi and stuff

3027
01:58:16,790 --> 01:58:14,340
I love those movies

3028
01:58:18,410 --> 01:58:16,800
like aliens was my favorite movie for

3029
01:58:20,810 --> 01:58:18,420
years and years

3030
01:58:23,390 --> 01:58:20,820
um and I like how they actually

3031
01:58:26,089 --> 01:58:23,400
um introduced the genetic uh engineering

3032
01:58:28,490 --> 01:58:26,099
and the mixing of the like the

3033
01:58:30,350 --> 01:58:28,500
complexity around the intelligence of

3034
01:58:31,850 --> 01:58:30,360
the alien and stuff

3035
01:58:33,950 --> 01:58:31,860
um but what I was thinking this was like

3036
01:58:35,450 --> 01:58:33,960
I said UFO so I was thinking

3037
01:58:37,490 --> 01:58:35,460
um maybe like Prometheus or something

3038
01:58:40,129 --> 01:58:37,500
because at least in that there is like

3039
01:58:42,350 --> 01:58:40,139
an element of the aliens actually flying

3040
01:58:44,030 --> 01:58:42,360
a spaceship whereas in the previous ones

3041
01:58:46,490 --> 01:58:44,040
like the healings never actually flew

3042
01:58:49,070 --> 01:58:46,500
the spaceships right right but that

3043
01:58:52,129 --> 01:58:49,080
whole series is is the thing that I

3044
01:58:54,490 --> 01:58:52,139
would have identified as well yeah it is

3045
01:58:56,990 --> 01:58:54,500
too good not to mention

3046
01:58:59,149 --> 01:58:57,000
I'm glad someone agrees with me about

3047
01:59:00,470 --> 01:58:59,159
aliens in the comments V

3048
01:59:04,189 --> 01:59:00,480
and

3049
01:59:06,589 --> 01:59:04,199
just I appreciate

3050
01:59:08,689 --> 01:59:06,599
um I appreciate the design of the Queen

3051
01:59:11,209 --> 01:59:08,699
alien I just think that they made it too

3052
01:59:12,890 --> 01:59:11,219
terrestrial honestly especially if you

3053
01:59:14,750 --> 01:59:12,900
watch the deleted scenes of the original

3054
01:59:16,970 --> 01:59:14,760
alien where its life cycle was

3055
01:59:19,189 --> 01:59:16,980
completely contained

3056
01:59:20,930 --> 01:59:19,199
um it was taking the some of the crew

3057
01:59:24,229 --> 01:59:20,940
members that it took and turning them

3058
01:59:26,209 --> 01:59:24,239
into eggs they call it egg morphing um

3059
01:59:28,310 --> 01:59:26,219
yeah yeah we're talking about them we're

3060
01:59:29,990 --> 01:59:28,320
talking about movies now but yeah the

3061
01:59:37,390 --> 01:59:30,000
original alien

3062
01:59:42,169 --> 01:59:40,910
wonderful yes what about you did you

3063
01:59:43,850 --> 01:59:42,179
answer that

3064
01:59:45,169 --> 01:59:43,860
yeah Mars Attacks oh you said Mars

3065
01:59:47,570 --> 01:59:45,179
Attacks I'm sorry I forgot yes they had

3066
01:59:49,370 --> 01:59:47,580
has everybody it's the ultimate is the

3067
01:59:51,890 --> 01:59:49,380
most that's what came to mind instantly

3068
01:59:53,030 --> 01:59:51,900
when you said that I was like Michael J

3069
01:59:56,709 --> 01:59:53,040
fox

3070
02:00:01,669 --> 01:59:56,719
um Danny DeVito Glenn Close uh

3071
02:00:05,990 --> 02:00:04,490
um Jim Brown yeah it is like a Who's Who

3072
02:00:07,910 --> 02:00:06,000
and it's held up really beautifully it

3073
02:00:10,970 --> 02:00:07,920
also takes place in Pahrump Nevada home

3074
02:00:15,290 --> 02:00:10,980
to the late great Art Bell

3075
02:00:17,209 --> 02:00:15,300
um that's cool oh yeah yeah so um

3076
02:00:20,930 --> 02:00:17,219
let's get this show on the road I'm just

3077
02:00:23,510 --> 02:00:20,940
gonna do a couple quick plugs uh I will

3078
02:00:26,209 --> 02:00:23,520
be on uh Deb's data JoJo tomorrow

3079
02:00:27,770 --> 02:00:26,219
evening at 9pm Eastern with DJ and Deb

3080
02:00:29,570 --> 02:00:27,780
from calling all beings and then I'm

3081
02:00:31,970 --> 02:00:29,580
also going to be co-hosting a few shows

3082
02:00:34,010 --> 02:00:31,980
of Mind escape with Mike um I'll be

3083
02:00:36,109 --> 02:00:34,020
joining him Friday night at 10 30 p.m

3084
02:00:38,209 --> 02:00:36,119
Eastern to discuss Soma in the history

3085
02:00:40,250 --> 02:00:38,219
of psychedelics also looking forward to

3086
02:00:41,629 --> 02:00:40,260
a couple conversations I'll be having in

3087
02:00:43,729 --> 02:00:41,639
the future hopefully one with Andrew

3088
02:00:45,530 --> 02:00:43,739
Gallimore offer author of alien

3089
02:00:46,970 --> 02:00:45,540
information Theory

3090
02:00:48,229 --> 02:00:46,980
um so definitely check out both of those

3091
02:00:50,209 --> 02:00:48,239
streams

3092
02:00:53,270 --> 02:00:50,219
um and next week we will be joined by

3093
02:00:56,209 --> 02:00:53,280
Jack Brewer who keeps the UFO Trail blog

3094
02:00:57,649 --> 02:00:56,219
he is definitely a friend of the show

3095
02:01:00,290 --> 02:00:57,659
um if anyone hasn't checked it out

3096
02:01:03,229 --> 02:01:00,300
definitely give a read uh both of his

3097
02:01:05,270 --> 02:01:03,239
blog and of his book The Grace have been

3098
02:01:08,270 --> 02:01:05,280
framed great kind of critical analysis

3099
02:01:11,570 --> 02:01:08,280
of ufology at the UFO community and

3100
02:01:14,030 --> 02:01:11,580
Aliens just in general

3101
02:01:15,830 --> 02:01:14,040
um thanks again oh yeah two books right

3102
02:01:18,410 --> 02:01:15,840
the other one was what Wayward Sons

3103
02:01:20,209 --> 02:01:18,420
which is about the history of nightcap

3104
02:01:22,729 --> 02:01:20,219
and kind of uh how the intelligence

3105
02:01:24,950 --> 02:01:22,739
Community can I have read it yeah I

3106
02:01:26,629 --> 02:01:24,960
haven't read that one yet either

3107
02:01:27,950 --> 02:01:26,639
um but yeah I'm super excited to have

3108
02:01:31,010 --> 02:01:27,960
him on the show especially after talking

3109
02:01:32,750 --> 02:01:31,020
to Erica last week yeah and uh before

3110
02:01:35,149 --> 02:01:32,760
you move on I have a plug too I think

3111
02:01:37,189 --> 02:01:35,159
I'm gonna be on the strange Recon uh

3112
02:01:39,109 --> 02:01:37,199
this Saturday morning

3113
02:01:41,930 --> 02:01:39,119
oh awesome I'm not sure what we're

3114
02:01:43,370 --> 02:01:41,940
talking about but um we'll come up with

3115
02:01:45,290 --> 02:01:43,380
something yeah I think everybody should

3116
02:01:47,450 --> 02:01:45,300
check that show too Jeff's got good

3117
02:01:49,070 --> 02:01:47,460
stuff yeah definitely yeah yeah Jeff's

3118
02:01:52,129 --> 02:01:49,080
the man he's great

3119
02:01:53,990 --> 02:01:52,139
Jambo Lewis anything on your plates

3120
02:01:56,750 --> 02:01:54,000
nada

3121
02:01:58,450 --> 02:01:56,760
nothing noteworthy

3122
02:02:00,470 --> 02:01:58,460
wonderful

3123
02:02:01,850 --> 02:02:00,480
actually I was working on that thread I

3124
02:02:04,250 --> 02:02:01,860
was going to put out at some point about

3125
02:02:06,169 --> 02:02:04,260
uh the the plasma intelligence right

3126
02:02:08,030 --> 02:02:06,179
crap just to try to clarify that stuff

3127
02:02:09,950 --> 02:02:08,040
so I was working on that I forgot just

3128
02:02:11,750 --> 02:02:09,960
now but that's gonna I'm very lucky very

3129
02:02:13,010 --> 02:02:11,760
much having gotten the sneak preview I'm

3130
02:02:15,169 --> 02:02:13,020
very much looking forward to that thread

3131
02:02:18,250 --> 02:02:15,179
I think it's a great little piece of um

3132
02:02:20,510 --> 02:02:18,260
information and critical analysis so

3133
02:02:21,950 --> 02:02:20,520
wonderful well thanks all so much for

3134
02:02:23,330 --> 02:02:21,960
joining us again on another episode of

3135
02:02:25,430 --> 02:02:23,340
The Invisible night school I'm going to

3136
02:02:27,890 --> 02:02:25,440
start kicking my co-hosts off the stream

3137
02:02:33,620 --> 02:02:27,900
and close out the show have a nice night

3138
02:02:33,630 --> 02:02:40,629
[Music]

3139
02:03:16,330 --> 02:02:42,730
thank you

3140
02:03:18,750 --> 02:03:16,340
[Music]

3141
02:03:46,010 --> 02:03:18,760
thank you